Phil Edwards Model Owners/Shapers

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Kickout's picture
Joined: 02/02/2007

Have an opportunity to swap for a 90's re-issue of the Hobie Phil Edwards model and can find little info (beyond dimensions) on this or other sites. Could someone take me to school regarding how the board performs...its limitations, strenghths, weaknesses, etc.. Any/all info appreciated.

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Kawika's picture
Joined: 09/09/2005

I used to have a Hobie Phil Edwards Model #31. I loved that thing, but was hurting for rent money and sold it for $1000.

Dave

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gabo's picture
Joined: 12/04/2007

and i bought it! (and even fixed the delam)

The edwards models were old school shed sticks, made for powerful surfing. I have owned three over the years and have always really enjoyed surfing them in larger clean surf, its my opinion that they are not that much fun when its small or crappy

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Kawika's picture
Joined: 09/09/2005

Hey Gabe, do you still have it? I'd like to see some pics!

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gabo's picture
Joined: 12/04/2007

I have some pics of me and a buddy riding twin edwards at a big day at swamis, Ill post em up when i have a chance, classic water shots, your board does the trick!

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jimthegenius's picture
Joined: 04/02/2004

I had lunch with Terry Martin a month ago and the Phil topic came up, Hobie paid Phil for a shape and a fin for each one. After about a month, Phil said keep the extra 2 bucks and supply your own fin, then he asked Terry if he wanted a few dollars more to shape the Phil's.
Hobie, in the last few years, was building a similar 3 stringer board for Japan, the japanese importer listed it in it's web site as the "Hobie Phil Edwards Model".
Eventually Phil saw the ad and came unglued that Hobie was buiding the board and had not asked for permission to do so.
It was not the same board and having his name attached to it was too much for him to bear

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Kickout's picture
Joined: 02/02/2007

Jim, how were the Japan boards different from the original Phil and Gabo, what keeps them from performing decent in smaller stuff? Thanks to both of you for the history and the feedback. Gabo, post those pics!

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johnmellor's picture
Joined: 03/17/2004

Was there possibly some sort of contractual thing between Hobie and Phil Edwards that gave legal rights of all Phil Edward's product development to Hobie? I think Phil Edwards played a huge role in the development of the catamaran line, the Power Skiffs and of course, the signature surfboard. Ironically, there is no mention of him on the Hobie website and I'm pretty sure all the work he did on those other products as an employee is in the Hobie vault - not owned by Phil Edwards.

I had the opportunity to speak with Phil Edwards once while he was on a shop tour with Mike Eaton. At that time I think he said he was a product development guy. What role he might have played in the rest of their stuff is anyone's guess.

For Hobie to be distributing the Edwards model without the signature seems like a slap in the face but is it possible he doesn't own the rights to his own model anymore? I don't think the Beatles were very stoked to have "Revolution" played on Nike commercials but they don't "own" that song anymore. Doesn't Michael Jackson "own" most of their music now?

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Kickout's picture
Joined: 02/02/2007

More importantly, would Michael Jordan ride the Phil model or feel that it bogged down in waist high point break and pick up a Frye instead?

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surfore's picture
Joined: 03/18/2004

This is the board. They're basically saying that the Legend model has been carefully reproduced after the famous Phil Edwards board of 1963.

No doubt Phil would be pissed about his model not being his model and sold without his knowledge or royalties in Japan. This was probably one of those things that happens in conceiving the board model "hey can you make me something like the old Phil Edwards model with same stringers and lam placement? We'll call it the Legend." Then once the boards arrive over in Japan they get "marketed" as a reproduction. They've been selling "100% hand shaped by Dale" boards for years when Dale hadn't touched a board in years.

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johnmellor's picture
Joined: 03/17/2004

Looks like a very nice board regardless.

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jimthegenius's picture
Joined: 04/02/2004

Hobie and Terry in no way were attempting to backdoor/pirate a Phil, it was a three stringer from Hobie and the Japanese distributor represented it on their web site as "Phll Edwards Model Hobie" surfboards.
Phil was less than understanding, explanations fell on deaf ears and feathers got ruffled

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jimthegenius's picture
Joined: 04/02/2004

The Ledgend has a much fuller nose than the Original Phil's, wide point in more centered

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johnmellor's picture
Joined: 03/17/2004

I can see where the placement of the deck logo might make it confusing. The Phil Edwards models typically had the logo off centered like that. Did any of the other Hobie models have the logo like that?

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peteharwood's picture
Joined: 03/27/2004

John,

Though the placement might confuse, the PE lam says "Phil Edwards Model" with the Phil Edwards being a reproduction of his signature...that's from my early/mid '90's re-issue signed by Phil along the stringer on the deck by the lam. No other markings on the board at all, top or bottom - serial #'s, measurements, etc.

Jim P. is correct too that the PE nose is narrower than the Legend board shown.

I remember some sort of connection between Phil and Bill Stewart during the time the re-issues were available during the '90's. The boards seemed to be available through Stewart - if I recall. Could have my head up my ass on that but, I seem to recall seeing Phil's boards in ads with Stewarts (too lazy to search through old mags).

Pete

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johnmellor's picture
Joined: 03/17/2004

Hi Pete -

Yes, I have a 6 page fold-out brochure that shows Bill Stewart, Phil Edwards, Mickey Munoz and Herbie Fletcher - each with their product line but apparently out of the same factory.

On the back it reads that all the boards were glassed at the Surfglas factory. Also mentioned are the rest of the shapers...
Terry Martin, Jeff Widener, Bill Shrosbee, Rick James, and Ron House - "with collectively over 200 years of experience."

I think that as with some other brands, once ownership changed hands, a brand was more a label than anything. Was Hobie Alter involved in any way shape or form at this point?

EDIT: There was also a "Phil Edwards Collection" which included the "Hobie Classic" and "Classic Replica" along with the signature model and custom wood boards. Even Greg Noll is listed as a custom wood board shaper.

I gotta say it's a little spooky when throw away brochures I pull out of my pile of crap can be used for historical reference.

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surfertom's picture
Joined: 01/02/2005

Hi John:

 

Thought I would post a picture of the Phil's I rotate riding. The one one the left (9'8" three stringer "Phil") and the one on the right (9'6" four stringer) are customs that Phil shaped for me during his working stint with Stewart and I think it was around 1995-6 (too lazy to look up the receipt right now). Phil was a real nice guy to give me the time of day on those two.

The one in the center I bought from the old Hobie store off the rack first in 1992. The other two I have been able to pick up used after I had the customs made. 

I am addicted to the shapes. Each has a nuance in the case of the pointed "Phils" that is all its own. Later after these I had a custom 10'6" made by Terry Martin and he can really shape the rails close to Phil's where they kinda' creep over the deck almost and stay thin at the edge. I have included that picture as well.

 

Tom

 

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easternpacific's picture
Joined: 03/18/2004

Quote:


The Ledgend has a much fuller nose than the Original Phil's, wide point in more centered


Jim - this is from the `89 reissue run. Do you know if Terry worked on these, or PE?
This one has a down turned tail . signed Phil


[URL=javascript:void(0);][/URL]
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jimthegenius's picture
Joined: 04/02/2004

I don't know what the arrangement was, it has Phil Edwards signature, in '89 he was still shaping customs.
In 1964 while working for Dick Metz at Hobie Honolulu, a shipment came in from Hobie and one of the boards was a custom for Paul Gebauer, but it was a pin tail Phil Edwards Model, Dick said it was the only pin tail Phil had ever shaped as one of his models.
Dick over heard me re-telling this and hush-hushed it right then, I guess he did not want anyone ordering one again.
Another board came in that summer, a 9'4" by 19-1/2" wide longboard for Blue Makua, the thought of such a narrow board was unfathomible at the time.
I remember the original order card on it was from Blue's girl friend with the instructions to make it "black like his skin"

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MikeDaniel's picture
Joined: 05/03/2007

Jim, while we're on this subject, and since you were there and paying attention,
what was the stringer set-up on the original Phil models? I know they had a lot of
wood in them, wasn't it multiple T-bands or something?

The reason I ask is because Gordon Clark always used to use these boards as an example
of how futile it was to try to increase ''break strength'' by using more or bigger stringers.
As Gordon told it, these boards broke with regularity, in spite of all the stringers. They
apparently were very thin for their time, and thickness plays a much larger role in ''break
strength'' than size or type of stringer.

footnote: I'd use the proper engineering term of ''load bearing capability'' instead of ''break
strength, but every time I do, a certain crazy Kiwi thinks I'm talking about load bearing like
a wall in a house, not load bearing of a composite beam like a surfboard. (Just kiddin' ya, Paul)

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mcmalibu's picture
Joined: 04/01/2005

The one thing everybody conveniently forgets is that Phil created the first dished out bottom of a boards nose to make a "noserider" for the 1966 Morey noseriding contest. Yes before they made them at Bing.

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spicollilives's picture
Joined: 07/04/2006

Pictures?

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llilibel03's picture
Joined: 04/21/2005

I don't know anything about the recent production, but while I was working for Dennis Choate in the 80's (the boatbuilder- www.denchomarine.com ), he told me he had worked for Hobie shaping the Phil Edwards model.  I was twenty something back then and just not in tune with surf history so it meant little to me.  Nor did it mean much when Mickey Munoz used to visit the shop.  I was just like "Oh, the quasimodo guy."  I missed out on great opportunities.  

Years later there was an article in Surfer's Journal about Phil Edward's new boat...built by Dennis Choate.  So I figure he was not just telling tales.

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unclegrumpy's picture
Joined: 09/16/2006

johnmellor wrote:

I gotta say it's a little spooky when throw away brochures I pull out of my pile of crap can be used for historical reference.

 Careful John,

 You know very well;

Today's "pile of crap" is usually tomorrow's historical goldmine.

 It's just happening much faster..........

;-)  

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No; It's not an ironing board.

Kawika's picture
Joined: 09/09/2005

Gabe, still out there?

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SammyA's picture
Joined: 01/14/2006

MikeDaniel wrote:
Jim, while we're on this subject, and since you were there and paying attention,what was the stringer set-up on the original Phil models? I know they had a lot ofwood in them, wasn't it multiple T-bands or something?

The original 60s Phils had three stringers. Center stick was wider than the offsets. My first board was a second-hand PE Hobie. Wish I'd kept it (I know I know...)

Two ads from 65 and 66. The group shot is (L to R) Joey hamasaki, Joyce Hoffman, Munoz, Phil, and Billy Hamilton. That's a "Phil" in the center.  The Phil lam was silver foil, as I recall.

The other pic is scan of a Hobie ad, with what appears to be a Phil near top right. I outlined it in red.

[IMG]http://i33.tinypic.com/15pmou8.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/34papdw.jpg[/IMG]

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SammyA's picture
Joined: 01/14/2006

mcmalibu wrote:
The one thing everybody conveniently forgets is that Phil created the first dished out bottom of a boards nose to make a "noserider" for the 1966 Morey noseriding contest. Yes before they made them at Bing.

The Hobie Noserider debuted in 1965. I have one. Edwards and Munoz are credited with the design. It's  called a "concave". Munoz won the first Morey Invitational (1965) on that very design.

In fact, Munoz took the men's division, and Corky Carroll won the juniors on the same shape.

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SammyA's picture
Joined: 01/14/2006

Anyone else note a similarity between the Edwards model and Harbour's Trestle Special? Three stringers, pulled in tail, pointy nose...

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MikeDaniel's picture
Joined: 05/03/2007

Thanks for the pics. Your posting of all these old ads, etc. contributes a lot to these history threads.

My inquiry was based on a structural perspective, but that doesn't stop me from admiring those beautiful old boards.

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SammyA's picture
Joined: 01/14/2006

MikeDaniel wrote:
My inquiry was based on a structural perspective, but that doesn't stop me from admiring those beautiful old boards.

Anyone who has George Orbelian's book "Essential Surfing" may recall that he also claims the Edwards Model was prone to snapping. It is in the context of comparing stringer choices VS the other factors that provide strength. I hold the opinion that while stringer choice can contribute some resistance to snapping in half, the deck and bottom contours play a larger role, along with the glass job, itself.

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mikefish's picture
Joined: 05/05/2008

I had a PE as my daily driver in the early 90's, 9'8" triple stringer, bought off the rack. It was a "frustratingly" hard board to ride well, my friend LJ said Phil was the only man alive who could really rip on one. I traded her in and never went back. Testament to how well PE could surf.

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naturalchapl's picture
Joined: 07/11/2007

my parents gave me oneof these when i was lke10 or something, was a great board in retrospec and man did i trash her out, that board was toast a few  years later, didnt help that i could barely carry it down to the inlet....

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kaikane40's picture
Joined: 11/13/2009

I just picked up a Phil Edwards Hobie board.  I googled and found this forum so thanks to everyone who has participated here.   I learned how to surf and sail on a Hobie surf boards and Hobie Cats.  When I saw this board, it was too good to pass up.  Unique wood nose and tail blocks (and signed by Phil).  What do you guys think of this one?

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johnmellor's picture
Joined: 03/17/2004

Hey Kaikane40 -

Congratulations, it looks like a really nice one! 

I think it will be a good rider.  It would be nice to hear how you like it once you get it out in some clean waves.  Of course, it might also be considered something of an investment.  For some reason they don't seem to get the prices of a Skip Frye longboard (why is that?)  but a nice one like yours sure isn't going down in value.

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SammyA's picture
Joined: 01/14/2006

That's one of the reissues. Less than ten years old, I believe. From the photo, it looks pretty clean. Probably worth more now than the day it left the shop. Not sure if Phil is shaping at all, these days. Plus, I don't think there'll be any more Hobies with his name on them. I'd ride it, but give it some TLC. Still, not comparable to an original 60s version.

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kaikane40's picture
Joined: 11/13/2009

Hey Sammy,

Thanks for the input.  I didn't realise that they still put the Phil Edwards signature on the reissues from the 90's.  Before I wax it up and take it into the line up, are you 100% positive this is a reissue?  Here are more pictures of the board.  Thanks Man!

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peteharwood's picture
Joined: 03/27/2004

Kaikane,

I bought a Phil Edwards new in '93 or so, like your's but no nose block.

Re-issue is a lame term to me. They're just "New" P.E. boards shaped by Phil.

That's his signature - "they" didn't put it on there.

I have heard that Phil will no longer be shaping so any board he's done will obviously be worth something more than its original cost but, I find it a fun, fast and enjoyable ride.

I will say though that I only take it out on very special days so's not to get any damage.

Pete

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thrailkill's picture
Joined: 05/07/2004

Be assured, it IS a reissue.

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Bill Thrailkill SHAPER SINCE 1958
kaikane40's picture
Joined: 11/13/2009

Hey Pete and Bill,

Thanks for the input, I fiquired it was a modern PE board but I wanted to be 100% sure.  I plan to surf it, and see how it performs.

Aloha!

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SammyA's picture
Joined: 01/14/2006

Of course it's not a 60s board. Fins Unlimited fin and box, leash attachment, nose and tail blocks. The 60s run had no wood except the stringers. leashes and FU boxes didn't exist then.

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SammyA's picture
Joined: 01/14/2006

peteharwood wrote:
Re-issue is a lame term to me.

 I think it's an entirely valid term when describing a shape/model that was out of production for a good amount of time, and then brought back with 'modern' features and construction methods. If Hobie and Phil had continuously made those from the inception right through the ensuing decades, then "reissue" would not be fitting. Just like the limited run of Cats that Noll and Dora did in the 90s. Those were a reissue since Da Cat was not in production for decades.

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BalsaBill's picture
Joined: 09/23/2004

While the recent Greg Noll Mickey Dora Cats were reissues since they were the same shape and construcion as the originals. (Copies of the originals.) I really question whether the Phil's should be called "reissues" since they are nothing like the original 1964 Hobies (three stringer all with the same dimensions every time, reverse pine fin, parallel rail shape etc.).

Since they are obviously not the same or even an attempt to copy the originals I wonder what they should be called? Reissue just doesn't see like an accurate term.

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johnmellor's picture
Joined: 03/17/2004

Reissue works for me for the exact reasons SammyA lists.

An original I had featured triple redwood stringers but the outside stringers were decidedly wider than the center.  I received it used so don't know if it was a custom. 

It did have the reverse template fin and no tail or nose block treatment. 

I don't think they were offered as East, West, and Hawaii versions but I have seen a fair amount of variation in the old ones... some slightly piggy and some more sleek.

I was slightly disappointed when I read here on Swaylocks that Phil Edwards didn't shape all of them... even though it appears as if he signed them.

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Wood_Ogre's picture
Joined: 10/19/2006

I don't want to sound stupid but what is a reverse template fin?  Thanks!

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mtb's picture
mtb
Joined: 06/29/2004

johnmellor wrote:

...(snipped)...

An original I had featured triple redwood stringers but the outside stringers were decidedly wider than the center.  I received it used so don't know if it was a custom. 

It did have the reverse template fin and no tail or nose block treatment. 

I don't think they were offered as East, West, and Hawaii versions but I have seen a fair amount of variation in the old ones... some slightly piggy and some more sleek.

I was slightly disappointed when I read here on Swaylocks that Phil Edwards didn't shape all of them... even though it appears as if he signed them.

I have a Phil Edwards model that I ordered from Phil/Hobie in the mid-60's (Serial # 697). Like yours, it has a reverse template fin and no nose or tail block. However, the stringers seem to be reversed from yours. The outside stringers on mine are thin (0.25"); the center stringer is wide (0.68") (Fourth board from the left, rear row).

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thrailkill's picture
Joined: 05/07/2004

The ''standard'' Edwards Model had 1/4th inch offsets, and 3/4 inch center stringer.    Hynsons' model had 1/2 inch offsets, with a 1/4th inch center stringer.

Perhaps john is confusing the two.     Both boards had  the same total amount of stringer width.

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Bill Thrailkill SHAPER SINCE 1958
BalsaBill's picture
Joined: 09/23/2004

Never saw a Phil Edwards, or a Hynson for that matter, that had a tailblock much less a nose block.They both came one way, as I remember. No color, no nothin' except the way they came. Same fin (Hynson's fin shape did change at some point): Red fin on Hynsons and a reverse pine fin on the Edwards (also called a 3/4 reverse sometimes because of where the tip was as opposed to some of he other reverse fins at the time).

Because of affiliation I'm much more familiar with the Red Fins so maybe there's a Hobie guy on here who knows differently.

I thought it was interesting at the time that most boards came standard with a tailblock of some sort, lamininated wood usually.  But here the Ferrari's or Rolls Royce's of boards, these two models came with no tailblocks and certainly no noseblocks.

I personally liked the look and still do. So clean. I really think that noseblocks mess up the flowing visual line of a board. Tailblocks I can take or leave.

Oh yeah: And it was not common practice for shapers to sign boards in those days. Even the models. The label had the shaper's or designer's or rider's signature but usually no signing.

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johnmellor's picture
Joined: 03/17/2004

Hi Bill -

I have had a couple of Hynson shapes... one was a G&S red fin with the wide off sets.  The other was a Hobie with a box.  The Hobie 'offsets' were painted on the blank.

As I recall the Phil Edwards Hobie definitely had wider offsets compared to the center stringer.  I don't recall the exact dimensions or what the total stringer width was.  Last seen, it was hanging in the rafters at the old Hanifin shop in Newport Beach.  I have no idea if that shop still extsts or if the board is still there... it's been nearly 35 years ago(?)

Again, it may have been a custom.  Sorry, I don't have pics.  It never had a leash attachment of any kind on it.

I do remember paddling around Pt Dume from Zuma Beach on that board one day.  By sheer dumb luck as I paddled around the point was in the right place for a nice set wave that popped up way outside.  It was easily the best wave I ever caught on that board. 

 

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SammyA's picture
Joined: 01/14/2006

Wood_Ogre wrote:
I don't want to sound stupid but what is a reverse template fin?  Thanks!

It is a fin that has a greater arc in the back than in the front. Typical D fins had a straight(er) edge in the rear with an arc in the leading edge.

This is a photo of the fin on an "Edwards" Hobie.

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SammyA's picture
Joined: 01/14/2006

Thrailkill wrote:
The ''standard'' Edwards Model had 1/4th inch offsets, and 3/4 inch center stringer.

That's how I remember mine. The two pics I posted above, on Sept 24, clearly show the center stringer as wider.

Here's some more pics from Blackburn's highly flawed "collectors" book.

Hobie Phil Edwards model. Serial # 825. From Spencer Croul's collection.

A close-up of that board's label, and another foil label that was apparently removed from a board. The book claims it's a decal, but the serial number (1336) says otherwise. Nobody put serial #'s on decals. Also note that the higher # has red Hobie script while the older board has a blue logo.

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Geoff's picture
Joined: 07/04/2005

My Edwards/Hobie/Stewart circa 1995 (sorry no detailed dimensions):

http://www.surfresearch.com.au/00000048.html

Tom Morey's Noseriding Contest 1965, Surfer magazine articles excepts, Phil's Noserider plans, Lindsay Lord, Hobie and MP ads, Fins, Slipcheck, and Commentary:

http://www.surfresearch.com.au/1965_Noseriding_Contest_Morey.htm

Note: 1. Corky won the Goofy-foot section, not Juniors.

2. In Australia, Reverse D fins were variously known as Reverse, Phil or Pixie fins.

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