I had some leftover innegra (2oz polypropylene weave) so I vacuum bagged it using a fresh bag and no peel ply. Direct lamination-to-bag. The innegra is sandwiched between 2 layers of 4oz on a 2# EPS core. I rollered the lam prior to putting it in the bag and ran the breather on the dry side. On the deck side I ran the lam pretty dry and ended up with a 75% fill, and on the bottom I ran it a little wetter and got a complete fill. I was real happy with the deck side because I like a little texture on my decks, and the bottom came out with a really clean fill coat. I don't see any bubbles or pin air.
Do you have any tips or suggestions or observations on this process and how to improve on it? I was happy with the results I got but there's always room for improvement and I know you've done it all.
Hi Greg and thanks!
Which epoxy is the least viscous? For laminating tight weave cloth, regular surf epoxies are hard to wet out. I've tried heating it, and thinning with xylene. Do you have any recomendations?
I also wanted to ask about mixing resin usage on a board. I have some 2.6oz S-Glass with a really tight weave that I have been using for deckpads and fin patches. For deck patches I've been laying 2 layers at opposing diagonal bias to spread the load differently from the primary lamination. I also did a deckpatch on one board (PU core) using a 4oz hemp weave. What's your opinion about using a stiffer modulus resin for deckpatches in general and these two materials in particular?
Surf epoxies branded as being eco-friendly have become quite fashionable. You're an acknowledged expert on resin composition so I think most people here will be interested in your opinions about the topic.
Without mentioning any company names or other identifiers, can you give us an idea what the spread is between the cleanest vs dirtiest epoxies that get marketed for surfboard construction?
What's the potential for improvement on the eco-basis?
Are you aware of any positive or negative effects on performance that may be caused by eco-related differences in these epoxies when compared to the epoxies that aren't marketed as eco-friendly?
Thanks so much for doing this. I've glassed about 50 boards with RR. Mostly Kwik Kick for the last 30 or so, and primarily over PU foam. One question and one request..
1. Please spill the beans on this "Ultra Epoxy". What is it?
2. Do you have any plans to release some sort of sealer or speed finish or "secret sauce" as a final coat over epoxy? I currently use Behr concrete/tile sealer, but I think the perfect sealer would be a little bit more viscous and be able to cover up minor weave-burns and imperfections a little bit better. It would be great to be able to aggressively sand epoxy hot coats with 100 grit and then lay down a nice thin coat of something to seal it all up. Am I the only one looking for this?
Like yourself, though not quite as long as yourself, I have been working with epoxy resins since early 80's. Saw my first EPS foam blank in 1983 while working for Gary Linden. We called it Styro-foam then. Soon after we began buying extruded foam from Japan. It was called Cross-Tune blanks. I beleive it was before Dow Chemical was selling theirs. We galssed them using that dark yellow West System stuff. Quite the learning curve there.
Been glassing some lightweight PU foam with Epoxy lately. Boards seem to be really durable. Quite happy with the results. I want to try your Kwik Kick resin. It makes sense.
My question is, do you think that a post-cure process is nessesary in surfboard production? I have a heater box in my shop and have them in there for at least 1/2 hour before board leaves the shop. I know many other industries who use this type or resin do this.
When I sand epoxy after having only cured at room temp for 24 hours, I get a slight chemical burn on my face. But sanding after a post cure at 110 degrees for 24 hours, there is no chemical burn to my face.
Is there some bad chemical in epoxy that goes away after post curing? Am I crazy?
No fully cure epoxy is still skin sensitive. Only full cure epoxy should be sand. Post curing increase hardness and elongation to break of most epoxy resin. With all epoxy i go 12h at 45C before sanding.
Hi Greg
I had some leftover innegra (2oz polypropylene weave) so I vacuum bagged it using a fresh bag and no peel ply. Direct lamination-to-bag. The innegra is sandwiched between 2 layers of 4oz on a 2# EPS core. I rollered the lam prior to putting it in the bag and ran the breather on the dry side. On the deck side I ran the lam pretty dry and ended up with a 75% fill, and on the bottom I ran it a little wetter and got a complete fill. I was real happy with the deck side because I like a little texture on my decks, and the bottom came out with a really clean fill coat. I don't see any bubbles or pin air.
Do you have any tips or suggestions or observations on this process and how to improve on it? I was happy with the results I got but there's always room for improvement and I know you've done it all.
As a shaper of foam, I know you have shaped some unusual projects, ie car parts, propellers, mega boards. Would you please talk about some of those?
All the best
Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught. - Winston Churchill
http://markmillerconstruction.com
I also wanted to ask about mixing resin usage on a board. I have some 2.6oz S-Glass with a really tight weave that I have been using for deckpads and fin patches. For deck patches I've been laying 2 layers at opposing diagonal bias to spread the load differently from the primary lamination. I also did a deckpatch on one board (PU core) using a 4oz hemp weave. What's your opinion about using a stiffer modulus resin for deckpatches in general and these two materials in particular?
Lastly, (and sorry about being greedy)
Surf epoxies branded as being eco-friendly have become quite fashionable. You're an acknowledged expert on resin composition so I think most people here will be interested in your opinions about the topic.
Without mentioning any company names or other identifiers, can you give us an idea what the spread is between the cleanest vs dirtiest epoxies that get marketed for surfboard construction?
What's the potential for improvement on the eco-basis?
Are you aware of any positive or negative effects on performance that may be caused by eco-related differences in these epoxies when compared to the epoxies that aren't marketed as eco-friendly?
Hi Greg,
Thanks so much for doing this. I've glassed about 50 boards with RR. Mostly Kwik Kick for the last 30 or so, and primarily over PU foam. One question and one request..
1. Please spill the beans on this "Ultra Epoxy". What is it?
2. Do you have any plans to release some sort of sealer or speed finish or "secret sauce" as a final coat over epoxy? I currently use Behr concrete/tile sealer, but I think the perfect sealer would be a little bit more viscous and be able to cover up minor weave-burns and imperfections a little bit better. It would be great to be able to aggressively sand epoxy hot coats with 100 grit and then lay down a nice thin coat of something to seal it all up. Am I the only one looking for this?
Thanks!
Hey Greg.
Like yourself, though not quite as long as yourself, I have been working with epoxy resins since early 80's. Saw my first EPS foam blank in 1983 while working for Gary Linden. We called it Styro-foam then. Soon after we began buying extruded foam from Japan. It was called Cross-Tune blanks. I beleive it was before Dow Chemical was selling theirs. We galssed them using that dark yellow West System stuff. Quite the learning curve there.
Been glassing some lightweight PU foam with Epoxy lately. Boards seem to be really durable. Quite happy with the results. I want to try your Kwik Kick resin. It makes sense.
My question is, do you think that a post-cure process is nessesary in surfboard production? I have a heater box in my shop and have them in there for at least 1/2 hour before board leaves the shop. I know many other industries who use this type or resin do this.
Thanks, Barry Snyder
Barry Snyder
Surfboards made by hand. Not machine.
http://barrysnyderdesigns.com
#barrysnyderdesignsWhen I sand epoxy after having only cured at room temp for 24 hours, I get a slight chemical burn on my face. But sanding after a post cure at 110 degrees for 24 hours, there is no chemical burn to my face.
Is there some bad chemical in epoxy that goes away after post curing? Am I crazy?
"Is there some bad chemical in epoxy that goes away after post curing? Am I crazy?"
Must it be either/or? Haha
All the best Dwight
Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught. - Winston Churchill
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