Folk's - i think too many beginning and novice Shapers get way too advanced in design concepts before they even know the fundamental routines. It happens. But it's really the WRONG path to take. What we need to understand is that a good basic surfboard ISN'T complex design wise. It really isn't. It's not the latest five finned dub winged whatever! So what is a basic surfboard? Can you define that?Or can you describe how to construct a basic surfboard step-by-step? if the answer is NO- then you really don't know what you're doing.I'd say a good solid surfboard for a basic surfboard build might be a single fin egg shape and knowing how to build it right. So what are the basics? I'll leave it here for you to answer. Does anyone else agree- that the current hype of hi- performance surfboard Shaping beginners are attempting to do --isn't teaching you --the fundamentals of building a rock solid surfboard? I think not. Beginning shapers r trying to build hi tech psb that they don't really understand. Fyi - the basics are thing's like: drawing up blank properly, skinning the blank, foiling it, thinning or foiling the bottom, adding nose/tail rocker if needed, using the correct blank, knowing how to use the basic tools of the trade, knowing how to do rail bands etc...Just saying. (A msg for -Huck) I disagree. If one doesn't know how to setup his blank, setup rail bands, or properly use power tools and machinery - he's prob gonna end up with a dog. Even if you just sat in and watched one pro shaping a good board - you would aquire enough basic info to start. Without the fundamentals of how, why, and where certain parts of the puzzle go- you are lost. Think about it. Could a guy figure it all out w out ever seeing what the pro's do? How would they have any guidelines to work from? I mean, we have rocker, wp, apex etc., we can't - just bevel a rail and call it done, right? There's a certain way they are shaped. Think about it. Let's say a amateur just bevels the rails the same - the whole way! That ain't how it's done -period. I geuss what's prob goin on- is folk's on swayz are just taking bits of the puzzle and thinking they know what they are doing. But i can say for sure - if they "sat in" w real pro's Shaping you can learn the right way. I think you should try it. i am pretty sure if you do this, you'll come back and say- Jim was right! I don't care what anyone thinks about me. I believe in what I'm doing. And i don't care about praise from amateurs. I do surf and have fun. But i want to put under my feet something i can depend on. That's WHY i decided to take Shaping lessons from a pro. And believe me, i wish i did this a LOT sooner! What you might consider doing : Go and visit the surfboard manufacturers in your area. Ask if you could sweep, or let them know you want to learn this Art. or just take shaping lessons! Someone will take you up - if you're serious. Or you can swing their rates for lessons. Want to know what i LEARNED in two lessons? How to properly address the blank, how to draw it up, how to skin the deck w proper angle... how to dome a deck, how to clean it all up...how to plane outline, how to properly sand w block, how to cut in tail rocker! How to cut in nose rocker, how to add extra nose or tail kick! How to use otf cuts foiling, cutting concaves, rocker, doing rails, and even doing a traditional hull bottom w concave vee! Would i learn that here? No. And get this, i CAN actually do it all!!!! Or, all that i was taught so far. :-) sorry i don't have software to size my pics. But look at this board i Shaped! It's a beauty! 5'11" x 21" x 2 5/8" thick Felix tail. I also put a flat bottom, added tail and nose rocker, panel vee and it's totally symetrical. Let's see - Finsoutfortheboys, mako, or mattwho- make something like this! My deck isn't just flat or just domed- that isn't shit......i foiled mine!;)i bet if i asked ANY of them how they would go about foiling a deck - they wouldn't know the first thing about it. Seriously -they don't. And now they want to "compete???" Like they are that good? : what if sum top pro's come in? Could they rival the experts? I think they are dreaming man. They really need to lose the competition thing until they actually know what they are doing first. So what they can glass a board. That anyone can do w proper knowledge and skills. I'm talking about Shaping a "basic surfboard."And I'm pretty sure - they really don't know how to do that yet. If they did, they wouldn't have to justify themselves and want to belong so bad. Plus they wouldn't be jealous of the experts in here - that would beat them on all levels.;) Heck, I've already got mine shaped. Yeah, Livethemoment... yeah, can you find Timbuktu w out a map to? No offense but but peeps need viable guidelines to build a proper board. One needs the solid basics that work vs are Maybe might work, could work well? Build whatever! ? Why not surf a glassed blank w out anything done to it. Thanks but no thanks. I'll keep taking lessons and learn the proper techniques to build practical surfboards -- that work! :-) Do you know what i think you'll end up with if you follow- Huck's advice? You'll have whatever knowledge he picked up here on swaylocks! And that might be partial tidbits of the WRONG info.......and lets face it. If you guy's felt you knew so much WHY do you even need swayZ anyhow? You all obviously need a crutch site to give you tips, right? Face the FACTS, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. whatever. Build whatever the heck YOU want. But it is probably not any BALONEY i would want to know about.:-) there are such things as proper basics of surfboard design. But you guy's will never know until you actually learn it. It's like you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Do you know what i think? I think just buying and shaping it w out the right info - is a waste of a blank. It may or may not work as planned. Wouldn't you rather build something you feel confident about? ?? Ban me, hate on me, i don't give a rats ass! I don't need this website w it's point system anyhow. I really don't. Nothing personal, but Huck you really don't know what your doing, right? You are building whatever - you are NOT sure of yourself. If you were - i can guarantee you wouldn't be here on swaylocks trying to learn a damn thing. What you need is the BASICS. Jot that down. Once you understand the fundamentals, or " the basics " you can break the rules. I'm just telling you the truth vs flowery bs that isn't proven. You should consider learning the basics. I will say no more. One last thing: resinbutt - it's not how many boards you make. What if you built 10,000 boards the wrong way? That's INSANITY. I'll just stick to my own plans and not help any peeps who r bigheads. Never did i say i was an expert did i? But let's face it! My boards look a lot better than what these guy's are doin.................look at it. You guy's just don't want to believe it. I have my basics in my grasp, do you? Can you tell us in a post how you shape? Pls do post about it.:-) Phebus- howabout describing what you think the steps are it takes to shape a basic surfboard? I don't care about segments you've soaked up. Isn't that funny! Everyone thinks they know how to shape a basic surfboard, but they CAN'T descibe what steps it takes... phebus or resinbutt - could you inform us WHAT STEPS you feel it takes to build a basic functional working board? No put downs - just documented facts. Description pls. Let's here it. Question #1 how do YOU address your blank prior to shaping? Livethemoment - i can agree with you there. Thanks for that. You know what I'm tired of? All of the haters - that talk crap to other's..........if that would STOP, well, there could be mutual respect. Make any sence?- Best to you as well. Mako- how about describing HOW you set up a short board. How would go about it? ok, I'm a potential customer. I want wp back 2", i got a 6'4" blank and i want you to build me a 6' board. I want 4" nose rocker, 1 3/4" tail kick, i want a semi pulled in nose and a moderately widish tail... width 21".Tell me what you would do? Listen: understand the question.i don't want additional tail rocker.' I'm requesting "extra tail kick." Got it? Thanks for taking my bad karma - Gdaddy. But can you answer my question i asked mako ? Funny how NOT ONE of these keyboard gurus actually can describe how to draw up, or setup their blank? Doesn't a Shaper have to sorta know how to set it up? I think so. I really don't give a rats ass how you fellas build one. But man, some fundamentals as basic as it gets, i think, should be known, right? I admit it i didn't know myself the answer to the question. A lot of questions. That's precisely the reason i decided to take Shaping lessons. but be jealous, keep hating, keep being rude....it's your karma. I know exactly WHY you hate on people. You fear the unknown, you fear being nothing, you want acceptance. Case closed. You know what i think? You guy's are just jealous of the guy's who can shape better than you. Mako- I'm just wondering how you as a garage guy setup your blank prior to shaping? I am just seeing if you know what you're doing is all. What are you doing? Are you just randomly aligning your template to the blank, or what? As told we setup our blanks before we shape. Btw -if you plan to compete don't you care about how to draw up your shape before you start shaping?????????? Or are you just goin batty setting stuff up wherever? Maybe it's a serious question to you? Where do you set the THICKNESS for wp? Or do you randomly design whatever is in your head? I'm testing your knowledge man. Can you come up with a answer? I don't care about 1 foot waves you surf, or ten pretty boards that may or may not be setup right. So where exactly are you setting up your blank with your wp and outline of your plan shape? Can you answer the question? If you can't - just say so. This is a serious question, i think. Don't you agree? I wonder if finsout can answer the question?? You know what you prove to me w those one foot waves- nothing! Man, a grandpa can surf bigger waves then that........if you really know something you really should know where to setup WIDE point! F**k this bs.