I am new to the forum and just finished my first board at a great shaping workshop in Biarritz France and am totally hooked.
I want my next board to have a very strong bottom as that is where I always get my dings but want to do it with the least added weight. I am admittidely hard on my boards so I am thinking about a basalt layer on top of the normal 6oz fiberglass on the bottom for both strength and esthetics. I was wondering what peoples opinion is on this idea or any others that would increase strength without adding a ton of extra weight. As its a nose rider I am not looking for it to be super light but not that much heavier than a normal 6+6 deck and 6 oz bottom. Also if there are any tricks people like when glassing a cotton cloth patch (batik pattern) in the middle of the deck for looks. The board will be approx 9’4" x 23 1/2 x3 1/8 pretty flat rocker and classic nose rider outline if that makes an difference.
A 6oz cloth weighs about 200g and need additionally about 250-300g of resin for the lam coat per m²; if you are going 6+6, a m² of laminated fabric will weigh up to 1kg, but at least 750g.
A 0,6mm veneer of wood weighs about 300-600g/m², depending on the wood. Pine may be around the 300, oak or ebony 600 plus…
But with the veneer you may reduce your cloth weight! I would give it a try and reduce it to up to a 3oz cloth or 100g/m². Including resin we talk about 200-250g per layer. If you now take a pine or larch veneer enclosed by two layers of 3oz, you get 500g for the cloth layers and another 300gr. for the veneer resulting in 800g/m²
Thus, the cloth/veneer/cloth is in the same weight range as 2 layers of 6oz, it is probably a little lighter.
Go for a test, laminate 2 layers of 6oz over a piece of foam and do the same with a 3oz/veneer/3oz. I would bet that the later is the more stabile, especially against vertical forces.
I have not done it, because I build wooden boards, but recently I did a 6mm deck of balsa plus a 0,6mm ash veneer, covered with 120 g cloth. This deck is really strong. I can not ride it until May, but I’m sure, there will not even be a light knee dent after weeks of riding it.
Getting back to the original question: what distributors have lightweight basalt cloth for composites (other than Sanded in Oz, who has cool-looking stuff). Just curious if anything under 6-oz is available. It’s always intrigued me.
I have ridden plenty of boards glassed with poly resin and plenty glassed with epoxy resin. I find the epoxy boards don’t get “shatter” type dings like poly resin boards, but I have never noticed any difference in the way the resin “feels” under the surfboard wax on a finished board. None. SMH but not LOL, just sayin. Be curious how you guys would describe the difference of the feel of epoxy resin when you’re riding the board.
“Feel” is somewhat subjective. It was pointed out to me that many guys will tap an “epoxy” board with a fingernail and detect a more hollow tone. This may very well translate to feeling more chattery in textured conditions.
The fact of the matter is that an ‘epoxy’ board is a fairly loose description that does not (as has already been pointed out here) account for the core nor the actual lay-up schedule. I’ve even heard local hipsters refer to “epoxy foam” which I somehow find highly suspect.
I have shaped, glassed and ridden many boards of different cores and outer materials - same as Huck. Polyurethane core? Undetectable (to me) between epoxy or poly resin glass jobs. EPS? Not much choice there… you pretty much have to use epoxy or a urethane resin like ‘Resin-X.’
“Tap Test” of different boards with EPS vs polyurethane core? Big difference in sound/vibration.
What with material properties of epoxy being superior to polyester, there is an argument that a lighter reinforcement fabric weight (I.E. 4oz/epoxy vs 6oz/poly) will provide a similar amount of strength. In my unofficial thumb tests, 4oz glass with epoxy resin IS roughly equivalent to 6oz glass with poly resin. 4oz S-cloth would be better still.
Basque Kook does not specify the weight of the Basalt reinforcement. If it is heavier than 6oz I would wonder how much weight is going to be added to a standard 6oz lamination on the bottom. I also wonder if heat is going to take a toll when the bottom is exposed to direct sunlight.
Based on some scientific experiments done by Benjamin Thompson awhile back, I’d recommend a double layer of 4oz S-Cloth (with an intersecting weave orientation between layers) laid up using epoxy resin. If I recall correctly, this combo offered a lot of bang for the buck.
all play, foam, fibers, resin, weight and SHAPE. so every boards are différents and feel différents. Most eps/epoxy “shape boards” on the market are lighter and flexier than Pu/pe. paper lam feel soft those boards dents and buckle light shit, so for sure they don’t feel like classic pu/pe even the disposable ones. no body may buy those shit overpriced boards !
I have never ridden a hand-shaped epoxy glassed board but the mass produced ones have a totally different feel to them in every aspect IMO. I have 2 and for example the Takayama in the pink in fiber and surftech epoxy act totally different in the water.
I am not sure which of the basalt weight fibers they have where I am shaping but I have asked and will post when I know
I love how a seasoned pro like Balsa offers legitimate helpful advice to a newbie to help out with a problem they’re wrestling with and gets blown off without a second thought, a thank you, or a little research into what was just actually said. Welcome to Swaylocks, now I’m LOL. OK, back to the basalt discussion…
Clint Preisendorfer (chill dude like his dad Rusty) was up here in Oregon around 5 years ago with an extensive quiver to offer test drives at the local, and we ended up talking boards for a couple of hours while the young bucks did the board swap thing. Clint said that after a lot of experimenting and team rider feedback at Rusty, their standard for ‘serious waves’ construction was PU blanks (density depending on length), S cloth and epoxy resin. Stated it offerred the bext combo of ‘feel’ and max strength without unneccessary weight.
with pu foam use of good quality not too reactive isophtalic polyester resin is a good improvement. for ultimate strength/weight wood glass sandwich skin on light eps is a good way but harder build and different feeling, possibly not as stiff as old surftech tufflite but harder under foot (i.e. no dents).
As this is my second board I will stick with polyester resin :) So just to be clear I like the weight of a 6+6 deck and 6 bottom. I just wouldn´t want it to be much more than that in the end but don´t want it really light either. For walking to the nose for an old rookie like me the weight really helps.
