thanks for all the replys!
First off its not my intention to take away from the Fish's natural abilities! i just want to take my initial design and try to 'perfect' it for my self, whether that be going shorter, narrower, a touch more rocker or smaller fins.
I genuinely love the free flow you get from the design and its ability to rap around a turn, a few pumps up and down the wave into a nice cutback or floater is to me, what the fish does.
I am 175lbs, 5'10ish. intermediate ability and surf only beach breaks. From all the advice here, im thinking that if i use some smaller fins, perhaps a cutaway keel, and reduce the size of the board I can keep the glide and paddle, but improve the controll over board.
If i go 5'6 length, pull the wide point in too say, 20.75", and leave the tail and nose the same but reduce the thickness , would this retain the speed and allow me to use the rails a little more?
a few of you mention going for a more pulled in design, Im open to reducing the tail tip width, but only a small amount, my other "fish" ( lets be honest its just a swallow tail and two fins) runs a 10" tail and a more curvy outline, ive attached an image in the hope you guys can see my position and help me to keep my fish fishy,
Hello; for the people that is saying that a Lis fish is a Lis fish...nobody now that buy a thruster think in a ´81 Energy...
Do you say that wants a fish to perfom like that; well; a fish is like a skate and have that "fishness" thingy.
Needs to be around 8 inches smaller in length that your average daily ride (if you ride not so wider and thicker boards)
If you have an outline like those zippy fishes; will be good turning but the feeling (and projection) will be other.
The one in that photo is a rocket fish; very popular in the mid 90s.
Whe you thin out the foil in the last third and makes an S deck with more rocker in that area you would fiish with a board that moves and retains the characteristics.
When you add the canard quads; you are dividing the 9 3/4 of a keel fin in two fins per side with the same area (depends, due to I tweak the rear fin to turns even more) letting an space between them (and toe in in the front ones) so you can have a better AOAs.
But if you are stubborn or do not like these advantages (like most) is ok for me. I am telling in few words some aspects of the evolution of this design.
You see how good surfers fight with those outdated fish with keel fins in daily basis; included some great names.
Another niche is the ones insisting with the D fins and some outdated outlines for the longboards. Only good if you ride the types of waves that you have in some spots in S Diego California or if you have a quiver of longboards or if you have gobs of technique so you can do whatever you want on the board.
I revisited the modern fish thread and found the information very interesting.....
The black and red board which I plan to reshape will use more of these modern ideas and knowledge.
I could not agree more in regards to watching surfers fight the fish, there are many other boards which are more suitable. Too me, the magic in the fish is using the power in the wave to perform the turns, which as you refer to as the skate, allows the free flow across the waves face.
Soo, you mention the s deck and thinning of the foil and rails in the rear 1/3rd, I agree This is a must when I reshape the board, but do you use a thinner foil through out your nose?
What about using a moder twin fin template over the Canard quad?
If this was your project and you were looking too improve what you allready had, would you be focusing on the length and template dimensions, or refining the foil.
Writing this has reminded me of the first proper wave I Rode on a quad, which has a very finely foiled tail, I went for a top turn and the nose came round much faster than expected, ended up heading back to the foam ball! Perhaps I should build two boards, a quad and a twin
You couldn't be more correct, you have nailed the state of my shaping!
Looking at the shape in the rack it always seems right! But you out a board next to something decent and all becomes aparant!
I can see what you mean looking at the rocker shot. When I shaped this board it was 11" shorter than anything I had surfed before, I was nervous to put all this effort into building a board I couldn't surf! One issue we have here on the Cornish coast, is the low numbers of people who regularly surf fish, there are very few shops you can pop into to view a really well shaped Fish, and those that doo, have boards from the States and Oz. only a handful of local shapers making anything worthy of looking at, and mostly surfed by shortboarders who are trying to fill the gap on smaller days. Most local shaped fish I see are fun boards, not fish.
I realize I could just template this, thin it out and give it some really nice rails, but would I be satisfied?
You've rediscovered the problem with the early fishes, where the board will track off the template like an Alaia in trim, and Mark Richards' solution was to add some curve to the tail and add a wing. My preference is what I call a semi-rounded swallow where I accelerate the curve in the last 12-15 inches. It's subtle, looks cool, and works in everything from mush to the heaviest tubes that can be found. That's it! Just take the straightness out of your swallow tail.
Yes, looking around everything bar the die hard 'it's not a fish if its not a Lis' seems to have a pulled in tail!
I fondled a few fish this last week, christenson, stewart, lovelace, vouch, JS... It gave a me a little more Insite as to what Batschife was saying, I have a few boards where I have nAiled the rails, but more which do seem over sized and lacking a bit of foil and character. I've been using greenlights rail band marks, great place to start but I guess I need to move on a little.
Here is the blank I'll be using, 5'10 rp with a wedge stringer. I have one other stringerless PU under my belt, a 5'4 which I used some s glass scramble tape down the centre. No issues yet but I'm a bit nervous of the glass schedule for this build. Probably 6x6/6 and epoxy resin
I'll be marking out the template over the next few days, it will be either 5'6 or 5'7. I'll keep going back and looking at the foot prints on my original board, and my front foot is behind the wide point, if the wide point is pushed back it will loose the easy paddle, but if I reduce the length to put the wide point under my front foot, it should be easier to break free. Is my thought process ocorrecr???
Between 20.5 and 21" wide. 2.5"/2 5/8" thick. Slightly pulled in tail and a little more concave.
You all have such great and varied advice, it's much appreciated.
I want to stay true to the soul of the fish, but will be taking on some more modern ideas in regards to the smaller fins mentioned by Bill and tail dims and rail shapes.
I guess this is turning into a build thread. But sadly I need to put a new roof on the shaping room due to the three concurrent stroms we have had!
Unless you're prone to driving the nose into the bottom I wouldn't worry too much about snapping. If you think of flex in terms of length x thickness, a 5-7 x 2.5/8 won't flex that much. If you're using epoxy then that gets you past the brittleness of the PE resins. I don't think you need bother with S-glass up the center.
What I will say is that taking a 5-7 length in a fish-oriented design out of the middle of that blank will give you all the rocker you need and then some. If you're taking the thickness off the bottom then you don't want to get too far away from the stock rocker or you'll end up with too much. I normally order that blank with a little less nose rocker for fishy shapes and I normally use the stock rocker for alternative shapes that we do up as thrusters and quads.
Gdaddy, this is a great blank but like you say the nose is a little curvy. On the last one I took the length off the front and I did have to flatten it out too.
On this one I'll go more from the middle of the blank.
I don't tend to hit the bottom, not many shallow waves round here. Because I always surf beach breaks, it's not uncommon to go from the lips to the flats and that does concern me for lengevity. I clearly over glassed my original fish, that was 6oz all over with the deck patch too. Do you think the tape would make this too stiff?