Help with Epoxy on EPS lam problems

General Discussion
1

Hi there!

I’d need help with a lam that went wrong. It looked good when I walked away from it yesterday… It’s the deck of an 7’8" egg, glassed with 2 layers of 6oz, epoxy, over 30kg/qm (higher density) EPS. I used a foam roller. These dry spots are all over the deck. I don’t really know

 

  1. what went wrong

  2. what I can do about it…

I’m a backyarder, I’ve been building about one board/year for 20 years, but this is the first time this occured… it looks like the dry spots aren’t between the glass and the foam but right underneath the top layer - between the layers of glass?!

I hope I can get some help here. I am considering sanding heavily into the top glass layer and see if I can take away most the dry spots, but I guess a lot could go wrong if I go that way. Any other ideas?

Thank you for your help!

 

2

another pic…

3

… and this is what the lam looked like yesterday night when finished… so yes, lammed at night thus falling temperature…

3024×4032 3.66 MB

4

I had the same problem, ( looking good after lamination, and showing dry spots day after) and at the time i assumed it was the glass itself.

I had ordered a bigger ammount of cheap 6oz glass with silane finish, and i guessed that the cheaper finish caused the problem,

meaning the glass wouldnt wet out good. 

Curious what others are going to say…

 

5

Hi jspr, you’re right it is silane. Is that of minor quality? And what did you do about it?

greetings!

6

I´m threadin on thin ice here, cause i dont really know about this things,

but …as far as i know the finish of the glass is crucial to the “behaviour” like wetout, stickiness, transparency etc…

silane is not bad in itself, but there are many versions of it…

in my case i ordered pricey glass, and it had this wetout problems all the time,

but if your using the same glass as always, and never had this problems in the 20 years before…

better wait for a more qualified advice;)

I actually did nothing about it, its another f…kup in the collection, sanding it all down …puh…

 

 

 

7

Probably not the cloth.  Most likely your saturation.  For the inexperienced it is sometimes a good idea to use a “cheater coat”.  After you have completely lammed everything, tucked rails etc;  Pour off about 1/3 the amount of resin you used to laminate and go back over the whole thing with another coat of lam resin squeeged on.  Sort of like putting on a second coat of paint.  It makes sure any missed spots are saturated.  Technique not materials in this case.  Never said anything about it;  but I am NOT a fan of using a foam roller to apply lam resin(epoxy or Poly) to cloth.  Mostly because people tend to “dry roll”.  You’re supposed to be spreading resin, not rolling a wall.  Foam rollers tend to pull resin out of the cloth.  If you were to spread the resin and saturate the cloth with the roller, then squeege the whole board you would definitely see a difference.  I use a squeege and I work the resin on an Epoxy lam more than I do a Poly lam.  Basically your pour the resin, spread to the point that EVERYTHING is saturated, rails, nose and tail tucked.  Then go back and squeege the whole board to pull off excess resin. You can tell if you have got it right by the sound the squeege makes as it is pulled across the cloth.  Too loud equals too dry. The only thing I use a roller or a brush for is to wet dry spots under the rails.  I won’t use a foam roller because experience has taught me that they “pull” resin leaving dry spots.  The only way to insure there are no dry spots is to pour a cheater coat and squeege the whole blank after using the roller.  But if you learn to pour and squeege, you don’t need a foam roller.    When I do use a roller underneath the rails I use a 100% cotton roller.   Lowel

8

Try building two or three boards a year.  Too much time between boards makes it hard to get good at it.  Too much time lapses between boards.  Too hard to remember what you did wrong or right.  With one a year, you’ll almost always have at least one error in there somewhere.

9

I like using a foam roller when lamming. Never had the problem shown.

As mentioned, you have to be aware that you are working the resin into the cloth, not just spreading it. This is especially true if you are laminating more than one layer of cloth at a time.

I also go back after my wet out of the cloth with a bit more resin, usually the remainder of my mix, to ensure good wet out. If your lam is dry, it will never wet out right with the next coat.

My first thought, when I saw the pics, was a dry lam. But I didnt want to be the first to speak up, cuz I’m not 100 % sure, even now. Just my gut feeling.

I have no objection to spreading resin with a squeegee, and have done it many times. If I could afford to waste resin like the pros do when they lam (like when they do that cool looking “waterfall” thing at the rails), I would probably use it every time. But I find ways that work for me, and I can lam with a foam roller with a good wet out and minimal waste.

I have no idea on best fix, but if it were my board I would be seriously considering sanding off the top layer of glass and re-laminating. Hopefully someone has a better fix for that.

10

McDing, that’s some good advice! I wish I had more time to build more boards as I really enjoy the process. However, it’s just a hobby… And I did feel pretty save - last built was not too long ago and I have never had that problem before… I will definetely stick to your advice of the cheater coat next time to avoid it… however NOW the big question for me is:

Can I salvage the thing? Is

  1. sanding it down an option? and then adding a new layer

or

  1. coating it with pigmented resin? (I’d hate to do that for cosmetic reasons plus I don’t want the board to get darker as I’ll surf it in the summer sun…)
11

Thank you for your thoughts, Huck. I have read about using a foam roller somewhere on Swaylocks, don’t remember who wrote about it, probably more than 10 years ago… I have been following the forum for a long time… and haven’t really had any issues. Well, live and learn.

“If your lam is dry, it will never wet out right with the next coat.”

You are definetely right. I mixed a little bit of resin right away this morning, about 12 hours after the lam, which still was not 100% cured at that time, and tried to work it in but wasn’t successful with that!

 

12

Nice looking board, hope you can get it sorted out

13

…damn I should have read this before lamming…

14

Thank you! I was really looking forward to surfing it soon, however doesn’t look like that’s going to happen here in Europe anytime soon either…

“but if it were my board I would be seriously considering sanding off the top layer of glass and re-laminating.”

That’s what I am considering, too. Though I am a bit worried that I mess it up even more…

glad you like the board… and hats off to what you did with the chunk of wood, Huck!

15

Do Not attempt to sand off the top layer of glass it will totally screw up the board , just finish glassing the board as if the dry spots were not there , when finished , Wax the board , go surf .

16

It doesn’t look too bad, actually It probably looks a bit worse because of the darker color on the foam and those dry spots really stand out. I’d do every thing I possibly could to try and wet those area out. You have a nice board there, pulling or sanding the glass off is going to be a nightmare and probably make the board worse than it is now.

I’d try and force some resin into those spots with a squeegee, maybe even a small brush with some stiffer bristles to jam it in there if that makes sense.  

17

NO!  Don’t do that!  Try this first;  Mix up a little resin in a small Dixie cup.  Less than 8oz.  Using your finger dip into the cup and take a little resin on the end of your finger.  Using your resin dipped finger, rub really hard on each dry spot.  Put some pressure on it.  You may be able to saturate each dry spot.  It’s worth a shot.  I have done this in ancient history and it sometimes works. Very similar to when you see a dirt spot in a wet lam.  Rub the piss out of it with your finger tip.

18

Amen Bro Zausa!

19

SEAL your eps blank before lam ! use what you like, spackle, resin slurry, resin alone… but seal it so resin don’t drain in blank when work with fall temp or blank don’t expanse when work with increase temperature…

Roller work well with epoxy in many other industries it’s main way to go, take care to use enough resin.

Now do a thick clean hot coat with opaque tint in two phase: first squeege or roll a thin layer of resin let this became tacky and pint an other thick layer. Sand, and do a clear finish coat and your board will be “perfect”.

20

Haha it’s your board, do what you want. For the record, I never said sand it out. I said that’s what I would be thinking about doing if it were my board. Especially cuz you said there are 2 layers, and the bubbles are between the layers of fiberglass.

I’m not a pro or an expert, I’ve only built a couple dozen boards in 10 years of doing this. I don’t build showroom finish surfboards. 

But on the other hand, I have also done a fair amount of repair and refinishing, I know how to sand, and I wouldn’t screw it up. I sand by hand with a sanding block, and have a lot of control, experience & confidence. I also have a lot of sandpaper and sanding blocks, lol.

I can and do live with a lot of imperfections in my boards. But little bubbles or dry spots in the lam is one of those things that would bug me enough to do something about. That’s just me… if you can just live with it, by all means do so. I’m pretty sure it won’t affect performance :slight_smile:

I have no doubt someone else could attempt to sand it out and screw it up. I try not to tell people what to do or not do, but I dont mind sharing what I do, or might do. In the end, you have to pick your own path and live with the consequences. 

Whatever you do, keep us updated with pics. I think a few of us are curious now what you’re gonna do, & how it turns out. And I for one would love to see more pics & details of the board & hear about how you came to pick this shape.

BTW, surfing is pretty restricted here in so. cal too. There are spots I could go to and surf, but I’m taking this very serious. It is a pandemic. For now, I only leave the house to check on my elderly mother in law, buy gas, or go to the grocery store. Hopefully we will get past this, and surf again in the near future.