New here and am looking at shaping my first few boards during some upcoming holidays. I’ve been researching relentlessly, learning about all the steps and techniques used in shaping a surfboard. Recently I saw someone on youtube cut rail bands using a long bladed box cutter and I was instantly drawn to the idea. The thought of cutting rail bands with my planer doesn’t appeal to me that much. Then I thought if a draw knife could replace a long bladed box cutter. Does anyone shape rail bands like this? Does it seem like a decent way to get an initial first pass that can be cleaned up with a surform/sanding block?
If you had to carve a tree into a surfboard, the draw knife could be used for your rough shaping. For foam, I would vote No. Even on a wood board I would say no (I tried it, takes too much wood off too fast, so its hard to control for something as critical as rail bands).
I have done them with a surform, but you have to have good steady control and make long sweeping motions, adjusting angle and pressure on the fly, as it were, and constantly checking your work with good oblique lighting. I think the planer works well because the base plate helps smooth the line of motion as you cut. Just set the depth to a narrow cut and work your way carefully.
You could probably use a sanding block, but with surform or sanding block you have to have really good facitlity with the tools. I’m no pro or expert, but have been using hand tools for most of my life, and most of my career, so sometimes when I post up my methods the real pros and experts get upset, or at the very least, disagree. You have to find what works for you. But I doubt its gonna be the draw knife, and in all likelihood, will be the power planer.
Thanks for the info. My hesitation with the planer is I’m still not exactly sure what the process would look like. Do you need an on the fly modified planer to do rail bands? Does the depth of cut change as you progress from nose to tail during each pass?
I will let the more experienced shapers address your specific concerns with the planer. But I would like to see that video, can you post a link for me?
There is a Universe of difference betweeen Matt Kinoshita’s abilities and a first time beginner. I wish he wouldn’t make videos like this. He seems hell bent on proving he can shape a surfboard out of anything with anything that you can find in the “junk drawer” in any typical kitchen. Misleading. But we learn by doing. If you think you can cut rail bands with a draw knife; have at it and report back to us. Be sure to include pics.
Worst case scenario, the OP could bypass the planer for the first couple boards by using 36 grit + sanding block. It would take forever but he’s retain control over what he’s getting without accidentally going too far.
It seems to me a well-sharpened hand planer would work, too. Just to get a little exposure to rail bands.
I did my first few boards with a regular power planer - fixed increments of 1/64th to 1/8th. Good control overall, but very slow.
Let us all close our eyes and walk backwards into the future , I cannot believe that any Swaylockian would suggest that a man that owns an electric planer should use anything but an electric planer to shape rail bands , how else would you learn how to use a planer without trying , and as for shaping rail bands with a box cutter WTF is all that about , I am sure that you could probably shape a board just using a knife and fork but why the fuck would you . Unless someone is reminiscing about building wood surfboards in the 1950s nobody on Sways should be mentioning the use of a draw knife to shape a surfboard , Swaylocks is supposed to be all about skill and craftsmanship , innovation and invention , moving forward and sharing how to build the best possible surfboards , I remember the rants of Sways members about shaping machines and boards from China , the true beauty the soul of a hand built surfboard by a craftsman using the very best materials available . There are some very very smart Sways members that realize that we now live in the 21st century , they build surfboards using computers and alternative materials like carbon fibre and ballistic nylon , they make boards that flex to once undreamed of degrees , boards that bounce off rocks without damage , they design and build radical fins on their 3Dprinters at home and than give them away to Sways members . Please please do not suggest to anyone that comes to Sways and asks questions on how to shape/build surfboards that they should do anything but the very best way , you all know the best way , none of you would shape rail bands with a box cutter , stop waffling , tell the OP don’t do that . Aloha
i work only on eps, i had to use a noiseless low dust process at a time so i learn to shape with custom made hot wires tools. i cut my rail bands like this but with hot knife cutter, using masking tape as guideline. became effective for me, never come back to power planer.
I understand the precision of the planer, and I get its the go to tool for the job. However, I dont see any harm in alternative methods. Whats the downside of cutting a rail like this? As long as its marked out correctly and you hit your lines it seems like it could be easier/faster than using a planer, its one continous cut…
Please by all means; Go head on. Damn those speedos. What harm could there be? Just be sure you come back with pics so we can praise or ridicule as the case may be. PS I will speak plainly; You will knock chunks and tear out foam, most likely ruin your blank. Draw Knives are or were made for wood. Planers are sharp and cut at highspeed(RPMs). Surforms grate like a cheese grater. Sanding blocks in 36,40,60,80, sand. If you don’t ruin your blank with that draw knife, I will be damned suprised. I more suprised tho at the number of people who come on Sways seeking sound advice and then don’t take it. That’s why I always encourage someone who opens a thread with a hair brain idea to go ahead with it. I don’t know why you ask. You were determined to do it your way the minute you started typing. Why ask for advice if you’re not going to accept it in the first place. Please! Go ahead use a draw knife on a foam blank. People have been shaping foam for years using planers and a variety of hand tools. But a damned drawknife isn’t one of them. Just by a CNC’ed blank. But don’t sand the ridges out with a drawknife.
Look, nobody wants to prevent you from having a great time with an easy fast shaping method. But you have to add, easy to screw up, and ruin a blank very fast also. We may not all agree on which way is best for a beginner, but I think we do all agree its not the box cutter or the draw knife. Its kinda like saying I never water skied before, and I’m a little nervous about being hit by a ski, and I saw a you tube video where a guy water skied on his bare feet, so I was thinking of doing that on my first time skiing. It just doesn’t hold that because an expert who had done something a thousand times can do it a beginner should be able to do it on his first try.
If you notice how wobbly his cut is with the hand slicer, then think how easy it would be to dig maybe a half inch too deep. Then you throw the blank away and go buy a new one, or build a goofy board with wobble in the rail. You will also notice he spends almost as much time cleaning up his cut with a sanding block as he would have spent just shaping the rail band with the sanding block. And you have to figure he knows exactly where the shape is inside that blank, and what body movements are needed to skin it down to that shape. He knows the foam, and all its qualities, how it responds, what are its limits, etc. If you have been sculpting foam into masterpiece artwork for decades, and now want to use your methods to make a surfboard, you might do it. But if you’re new to working with foam, new to hand sculpting, new to envisioning something in your head and creating that vision in 3D with your hands and eyes and body language and motor skills, then fast and easy isn’t for you, slow and methodical and controlled are better. Its not a race. For a professional shaper with mouths to feed, it is. There is a difference.
Anyway, like McDing sez, tell us which way you choose to go, and show us the results, it’ll be a learning experience to share.
In my opinion the only reason to hold off on using a planer set up for shaping is in order to get a handle on what a clean rail band looks like and what it takes to do one. The planers that are set up to do the agressive and adjustable cuts on the fly are a lot harder to control. An unmodified planer with clickable settings and more shallow cuts will be easier to control even though it will take 4x longer to do it when compared to a modified planer.
At issue here is the point that it’s not what you take off the blank that counts, but what you leave. Most of us have accidentally overshaped a blank due to losing control of a cut. That’s where starting slow can be a good thing. As a noob you’ve got way more time than resources, so getting it done fast shouldn’t be a thing for you at this point. Put that 30-minute shaping demonstration out of your mind for now because you aren’t at the point where you’re trying to make a living at it and you don’t need to get blanks done quickly. You need to get blanks done as cleanly as possible, regardless of how long it takes. After that, the speed and efficiency will accrue with repetition.
You can’t develop a shaping technique until after you’ve developed the eye that it takes to effectively apply that technique. IMO
