Replacing Finbox w Epoxied & Stripped Screw

Hi All,

I have messed up at just about every step on my first board - mistakes that will help future boards, fail fast as they say.Well I may have bought the farm with this one… I got a bit of epoxy in the screw hole of middle thruster fin during my first hotcoat from bad tapejob, and I threw a screw in there hoping it would at least help keep the shape of the tap. Well, the screw got epoxied in and I stripped it bad trying to get it out. Ouch. Here is a pic of the ordeal. I have just 1 layer of 6oz Ecloth on bottom with a fairly thick hotcoat - (2 layers eglass patched around finboxes)

It looks like I will need to remove the box and replace with another - and I am actually thinking of going with a longbox 2+1, so my question is this: what is the best method(s) for removing the finbox (I have a die grinder and drill and all) and whether the makita router I had with the futures 1 pass bit would be sufficient to expand the finbox so I can put in the longbox - or should I try to get through all the glass with a die grinder before routing for the new box.

 

Thanks,

Willie

You might want to try an EZ-Out device first.      I’ve had very good results with them, on small diameter screws.        Good example, FU fin screws.

You might want to try an EZ-Out device first.      I’ve had very good results with them, on small diameter screws.        Good example, FU fin screws.

All is not lost for the screw, unless you are fully set on swapping the box with a long one. Not sure where you are located on this great planet, but they make screw extractor sets with left handed drill bits that are relatively cheap. I would bet that you could still get that screw out with one. I’ve used them to remove screws and bolts stuck in things way harder than plastic.

If you do want to swap the box completely, I did the same thing ealier this year. Cut out the futures center and swapped with a long box. First I laid the long box on the board where I wanted it and traced around it with a marker. Then I used an oscillating tool with cut off attachment to cut through the glass inside of the line. I was able to peel up the glass where I cut. I also cut through the futures finbox to try and pry it out. Prying didn’t work well because I was afraid of pulling out a chunk of foam. Next I lined up my long box jig, taped it down, loaded my worst straight bit into my router, and routed out the new hole for the long box. I made multiple shallow passes when cutting through the old futures finbox. You might need to get creative to avoid that screw. The foam and glass can be routed easily in one pass asumming your router bit is long enough. Then just install the finbox as normal. The futures flange is about an 1/8" wider on either side than the longbox, since mine were both black boxes I left that little bit of the flange in the board. You can tell but its not overly noticable. If you don’t have a oscillating tool or router you could use a dremel. In my experience its easier to cut straight lines with the oscillating tool, dremel with cut off disc, or grinder with cut off wheel than to free hand a router.

I hope this helps and let us know how it turns out.

An E-Z out or a screw extractor might have a tough time with the set screw being epoxied in. It may save a step to simply drill it out and tap the hole remainder. Even if you have to go a size up, go to the hardware store get the size needed and maybe some extras for future use. Good luck.

The screw extractor set I use has left handed drill bits. The bit is twisted in reverse of normal. You run your drill in lefty loosey  it drills down and gently persuades the screw to unthread. Usually a stuck screw will unstick/start unscrewing itself while I’m drilling it with the drill bit and I don’t need to use the extractors.

I feel like the epoxy in the hole would give an extractor something easy to bite into and make extraction possible. At least easier than replacing the whole box. Unless you are using this as a convenient excuse to replace the box.

As awesome as an adhesive as Epoxy is, Stainless steel is not a great surface for adhering anything. 

 

Even if one were to degrease it, attempting to increase bond strength, the bond strength is still not all that great.  Lot of rough mechanical tooth is required, and it still bonds poorly compared to Non stainless steel.

 

The Fin keys, are a soft metal, designed to be softer than the stainless steel grub screws.  Had the OP used a real allen key the second set screw likely would have come right out, and then the issue would be getting the Hex into the submerged setscrew.

 

The left hand drill bits are great, and if they do not grab and extract it then the Ez- outs likely will, if properly sized for the hole drilled.

 

Go slow so they do not melt the fin box, unless it cannot be saved no matter what.

 

That top grub screw, dremel a slot into it  with a cut off wheel for a slotted screwdriver, its the deeper screw which will present the bigger issue, in my opinion.

The dental like picking tools, can be shaped into mini chisels with a file.  Some good magnification and with precision, one can use them to dig Epoxy from the hex key receptacle, and get a real Allen/Hex  key inside them, not a soft metal fin key.

 

I think fin keys themselves are a root cause of a lot of cursing in all but their intended use, easily installing or removing them post surf.  The second they grub seems to not be responding right, consider teh key trashed.  If one cannot fins a real hardened metal hex tool, then cut off the rounded tip and try again.  Fin key stripped heads cut like butter on a dremel cut offf wheel.  Takes about 1/5 the time and effort of a real hardened hex key with 1/20th the sparks.

 

Rapid  precision heating and  or cooling of grub screws might also be effective in breaking the  bond with resin.  ice the fin box and heat the allen key up, remove ice, and jam it home.

 

 

great advice so far - the more I’ve thought about it, the more i’m interested in the 2 + 1 rather than trying to drill through the box and the like. Ill wing it ripping the old box out. Keep you posted!

Coming to this a little late, but…I’m gonna agree with all that’s been said. First, get one of those dental pick type tools, easily found at any good hardware store, and clean out the hex hole where the Allen/hex wrench goes in. All the way to the bottom.

For future reference, by the way, a little wax rubbed on the threads and stuffed in the hex hole prevents this fun. Surf wax is fine. You should do this with all fin box screws. 

Next, get a decent hex wrench. The ones sold by the fin/finbox companies are absolute crap, I think they make them out of bubble gum. The only justification for using such a miserable material would be to damage/sacrifice the key rather than the screw if the latter got stuck, but it’s poor logic. I was once in a surf camp, way out on the edges, and all we had was those miserable things in various degrees of rounded out and utterly worthless. 

Likewise, if you have an allen key/wrench that is getting a little worn or rounded or loose, either replace it or grind it past the rounded area. If it doesn’t feel really solid, it’s not ground far enough or it’s the wrong size. Try metric, try SAE, whatever gives you that really solid feel. Personally, I like the T-shaped hex wrenches, like these: https://www.harborfreight.com/sae-t-handle-hex-key-set-10-pc-69369.html . You want some in your toolbox anyhow. 

If it doesn’t turn, a light smack or three on the allen key with a plastic mallet, a light-ish one, can break it free of the adhesive. Worth a try, don’t go nuts. 

Okay, that didn’t work? Try a little heat. I’ll emphasize ‘a little’  , something like the tip of a light soldering iron ( the type used for electronics) inserted in the hex hole. If you see smoke you overdid it. You’re trying to soften the adhesive a little to get the thing to start unscrewing, so you want that tight-fitting Allen/hex wrench handy and be ready to  have at it. I’ll note this is kind of a Hail Mary move, if you don’t want to risk it you won’t hurt my feelings at all. 

Awright, now it’s EZ-Out time,.They use, as has been mentioned, a left hand drill bit and typically a thing that looks like a reamer.with a little left-handed twist in it. The latter are meant to be used with a tap wrench, not thumb pressure and pliers or similar. They are surprisingly good if used correctly, see YouTube for videos on how to do that. I mean, they use the things for getting seized bolts out of engine blocks, they’re good.  If misused ( yeah, thumb pressure and pliers) you can break the hardened steel extractor and break it off in the hole, utterly bollixing up any future attempts to get the screw out or drill it out and retap or drill out big and use some sort of threaded insert. And then you;re stuck with replacing the box. 

Now, your original question, whether the makita router I had with the futures 1 pass bit would be sufficient to expand the finbox so I can put in the longbox - or should I try to get through all the glass with a die grinder before routing for the new box. 

I’m not familiar with the bit Futures uses, but my guess is it’s just meant to cut foam, not glass or fin box plastic or whatever you used for bedding in the old box, all of which can send your bit off in exciting new directions as a surprise gift. . I would suggest a carbide bit with an up-cutting spiral that’s the same diameter as the one meant to go with your fin box jig. Carbide, while it can never be as sharp as high speed steel, can handle the glass and plastic without going rapidly dull, the upcutting spiral will get the fragments out of the hole so they don’t screw up your cut. Stick your jig on well, the forces on it while cutting something tougher than foam can make it walk a bit and really screw up your cut. I’ll just bet you can guess how I know that. Hot glue wouldn’t be a bad idea, though you want to be really careful how you do that, getting the alignment smack on could be tricky. Option B would be using a really good industrial double-stick tape (try an auto-body supply store) to hold the jig and plenty of it. It won’t be fun to get off ( nor the hot glue) but it’s better than trying to figure out how to deal with the ‘Z’ you unintentionally carved in the bottom. And yeah, I’ll bet you can guess how I know that one too.

hope that’s of use

doc…

Try turning the screw in rather then out and have it come out the bottom of the box rather then try to turn it out through the threads with resin in them. Once out the bottom, run a tap through the hole and you’re good to go. 

A ton of great replies to much - a sincere thank you to everyone taking the time to lend me some of their wisdom. I think i’ll try using a real allen key after doing my best to clean the keyhole, and trying to send the screw forward. If not, I will find a better router bit to route out the glass and epoxy (I am kind of using this as a convenient excuse to change the box). I will keep you posted with the updates! Thanks again - willie

Seems crazy to some;  but I have dipped the end of a fin key in “five minute” epoxy like Loctite makes and then inserted it into the bunged up screw overnight.  Then was able to gently remove the screw.  That Chinese steel is so soft that if you don’t drill it first an “easy out” will strip as well.  Pretty sure Futures or FCS makes a tool just for this purpose.

Cut around the box with a Stanley knive at about one inch deep.  Then put a fin in the box and jiggle from side to side like pulling a loose tooth.  Once you get it out you can remove some glass and re-rout for a long box.  Don’t get anywhere near that plastic box with a “one pass” bit.  You’re just asking for trouble or injury.  You should go back and ask yourself what you did wrong that resulted in getting resin in the screw hole in the first place?

Hello McDing; I heard couple of weeks ago that were big fires on the part of the World that you live. All ok with you and your things?