I’m slowly starting my next build project. I’ll be building a 5’6" Simmons style Quad for a friend. You can see the outline and Rocker below. The Rocker template is fo a 6’0" so I won’t use all of tail and nose. I have succesfully build two boards using it which work from really small to OH conditions. The board will be build compsand style with 3mm HD foam on bottom and deck and 15mm HD foam rails. Dimensions: 5’6" x 22 x 2.5. Any input on the shape?
Before starting the build I have one question for you guys. Maybe there is still some compsand knowledge out there. Is there any reason not to use fuision boxes on a compsand? Up to now I have only used fusion boxes. For the fusions I haven’t used additional HD foam inserts. Should I do so for the Futures?
I’m seeing more Tomo than Mini-Simm in your design, which is just an observation, not a criticism. That shape in that length will obviously work. One difference with the Mini-Sims is that they had the wide point back and they were doing them so short, thick and wide that their riders had to overpower the tail block in order to turn them. You’re using a much more refined foil and perhaps a little less nose rocker.
As for a Futures install, you would want to keep the box from flexing. When they break it seems to be the torque doing it. Since you’re already covering the blank it will be easy to hide the inserts.
One technique I used to further reinforce a Gearbox install I did a while back was to take my insert material and laminate a couple layers of 6oz. After it set up I templated my inserts, routed the cavity in the unshaped blank and installed those inserts with the glass side down. I did all that before shaping the blank so that I basically shaped the inserts at the same time as the blank. Glass as normal and then do the finbox install. The fiberglass at the bottom of the insert cavity supported the bottom of the fin box so now the box is supported at both the top and bottom. If I routed through that layer it acted as another truss to support the bottom of the box.
So you could do that with a Futures install. Rout and glue in your inserts prior to shaping and then proceed as normal.
Looks epic. Im excited, what are your bottom contours, are you gunna do little chines on the rail or standard concaves…?
I did a recent build thread of an asym based on something like a Minisim… Have a look. “Funky asym beast made from a beat up twisted mal”, or something like that.
@gdaddy: you are right. It’s not really a Mini-Simmons any more. Haven’t had a look at Tomo boards for a long time. But you are right. I have scrolled through Grant Newby’s site a lot who builds similar boards.
Your fin box reinforcement method looks really good. I think I’ll go for something similar. Will be easy to hide under the bottom skin. Also the board will be colored before lam as the Corecell HD foam i have comes in a real ugly yellow .
@ skatement: of course I have seen your thread! The Outline might also be the outcome of looking at your boards. In terms of bottom contours I’m not sure. Up to I have only built flat bottom surfboards which went really great for me. Atleast I did not miss any other contours. But I’m far from being a good surfer.
As already mentioned I looked at Grant Newbys boards. In terms of looks Chines compined with a single concave in between would be my choice. But I don’t have any clue about dimensions of these chines and haven’t found anything about chines here. Do you have a hint for me?
The dotted line you can see on the top half of my outline sketch is my first rail band which will be hotwired. Would that be a good contour for chines as well? The chine could also easily be hot wirde as my rail band tool is adjustable in angle. Any suggestion regarding the angle? 5 degrees?
In terms of build process i would prefer a flat bottom…
Your design has a fat ass (which, most of my boards have a fat ass). I subscribe to concaves for narrow tails (to compensate for the lack of surface area) and concaves for wide tails (to add control). With concaves and convexes, I think a little goes a long way. I only want to use enough to do the job, and no more.
For the wide tailed boards I like to use the rails and bottoms they used on the original fishies. Flat to a mild vee, and including a subtle chine, like less than 1/8th, to smooth things out. A couple passes with a sanding block will do that, and will give you great control over what you’re taking off.
The board below is a 5-10, wide point back with somewhat of a Simmons foil (thick under foot with a tucked rail and a hard edge in the tail). Subtle belly in the nose to take the drama out of a drop, but otherwise flat with a chine and a 1/8th panel vee. I used 5/4 combo for the quad so there’s a lot of fin area to push against, sufficient to control the 17.5" tail. Good for the slow/mushy beachbreaks and reaf breaks in my local, but not so good for a fast wave.
Your design has a straighter template and is probably a little flatter in the nose so I think it’ll be a fair bit faster, particularly on the top end.
Incidentally, and since we were talking about HD inserts, if you look at the pic above you can see the inserts I used, which in that board ran all the way through the blank to tie into the deck lamination. I put those in before I even cut the blank. Then I shaped and finished as normal and installed the fins last.
BTW, the use of inserts and installing them prior to shaping was something I learned from what the compsand guys were doing.
Go with flat bottom edged rails a la Greg Griffin, from my little expérience never be disapointed with this bottom design, for me or my friends. Seems to work on all kind of design but every better on wider volumed one’s.
Connected strongly fins plug to reinforced deck skin is the best way to go for durability.
Still probably some more weeks till I actually start the build. So nothing decided yet. Just for the looks I would love to give it a more complex bottom with chines and all that stuff. Given that I don’t have any practice there I’ll probably better stick to the flat bottom. Especially since the board will not be for me.
Regarding fins I will go with FCS Fusion again. Already have the router template and know how to set so that they don’t fail. Just last week i dropped a board on the beach. The fin snapped but the box doesn’t show any sign of failure.
One more question regarding cosmetics. on the last boards I vac bagged the lam and then used opaque epoxy filler and automotive paint for the finish. Not the standard way but gives a very good result if you have the help from a professional car body shop
For this one here I want to do a standard lam. So my idea is the following: After the shape is complete and HD deck, bottom and rails are on I want to spackle it and paint it before the lam. Any idea what kind of paint i should use? Just a coat of pigmented epoxy?
OK. First step done. I managed to hotwire deck and bottom out of a leftover block from the last board.
The bottom is a bit wobbly. Now I’m not sure if I have to sand the wobbles out altering the rocker or if it will be pressed flat when adding the bottom sandwich sheet. I think about the latter. As the bottom will be spackle anyway after the sandwich I can get rid of any remaining wobbles then. Here is a rather bad picture of the hot wired bottom. You can see the HD foam for the rails in the back.
The conventional wisdom here is that you can almost never fix a problem with the next step of your process. Work each step as cleanly as you can. If you haven’t done the deck yet then the worst thing that can happen to you with the above is that you’ll move your rocker template to give you a little more room to work with. You can clean your wobbles with a long sanding block and long strokes. Those wobbles will clean right up.
Fix the bottom, then when you cut the deck leave yourself a little room so you can sand to your line.
If it goes well it’ll save me 10 minutes with a sanding block. If it does not work it’ll be a hassle with spackle and much more sanding.
The deck is already cut. I’ll just sand out the wobbles. As I have decided to go with a flat bottom I will press the bottom sandwich against a rocker bed. Still have one from the last board without the wobbles. I don’t think sanding of less than a millimeter on the bottom will change the deck noticably.
Next step won’t be befor november. I’m wainting for a lasercut outline template.
Has anyone of you ever finalized the outline using a router around a template?
I consider the routers to be the most dangerous tools we use. They’re scary enough when we’re doing fin system installs; I’m not going to press my luck with using one to cut 20 feet of template line with one. Some veteran shapers use a router, but most don’t.
For now, just stick with a saw. Until you get your sawing technique perfected you can cut 1/4" outside your line, and use a planer or sureform and sanding block to clean everything up and get that cut square. It takes a lot longer but you retain more control that way. Besides, you’re not on the clock. You don’t need to be fast. You only need to be clean.
Small progress is made. The outline template has been laser cut. And I can now start cutting the outline and pressing the bottom. Maybe I’ll be able to get even the rails on this weekend.
Just used the template to draw the final outline and blank outline onto the blank.Building a compsand I can draw onto the blank as I want as the sandwich will conceal it anyway.
My idea is to cut the blank outline using a jigsaw. Then I will press on the bottom, cut the first rail band and glue on the rails. Then the second rail band is cut and the bands are blended before pressing on the top sandwich. Depending on how good the hd foam will conform to the shape I will true verything up with a router using the template before finalizing the rails.
That was quite a productive weekend. I got way more done than expected.
I cut the outline and attached the bottom sandwich using foaming pu glue. That works also with the inner fiber layer. A trick taken from model airplane guys. Inner fibers are 68g/m2 carbon/Kevlar.
Bottom sandwich overlaps rail so that the HD foam rails are in between the sandwich layers. Rails also added using foaming pu glue. I ran out of the slow and used a glue with 8min pot life. That’s why I managed to put on rails and nose and tail block within 2 hours.
First railbands were cut with a hot wire tool. Because everything went so smooth I dared to put on the deck sandwich using the fast glue as well. I had some help spreading it so it worked out fine. 30 minutes into the bag and it is finished.
Next I have to round the rails and then fin boxes and lam. Still haven’t decided on that one. Could be a complete carbon lam, carbon or carbon/Kevlar rails or just glass. But I have some time to decide that because I won’t be at the workshop for at least 2 weeks.
@gdaddy: I was afraid of going too thin when sanding out the wobbles from the hot wire on the bottom. Sorry I ignored your advice, but the foaming pu and the rocker bed made for a completely flat bottom. You can see the lighter colored areas on the bottom. Sometimes you are rewarded for taking a shortcut ;-)
Here are a few pictures of the process. Obviously no pics of the gluey moments.
A rather slow build but I managed to get a little done again. I cut the last rail bands and blended everything in. This is usually the step I’m most afraid of as I don’t have any practice. But it worked out pretty well. Then I routed the holes for the fusion boxes and put on some epoxy with micro balloons to close the surface. Weight of the finalized shape is 1800g.
Next step is to color the blank to hide the hideous color of the HD foam. Not sure if it is better to do that using epoxy or acrylic. Any input there? Also not sure if it will be a standard glass job or If I wanna go with some carbon rails or other shenanigans.
I found a can of white acrylic paint and went for it. I will go for carbon rails. I’m just not sure how to overlap the carbon in the corners. I think it’s going to be some sort of cutlap between multiple Strips.
