First Board. Questions and clarifications

General Discussion
1

G’day from Melbourne, Australia!

I’m still a beginner surfer (and soon to be shaper) exclusively surfing small sometimes mushy beach breaks (for now) just having fun. Smashing it in on the longboard, and tried someones mini mal and had fun on that too. After doing some research Im thinking a midlength egg is a good progression for me and a fine first build. Love my DIY so am really looking forward to this project.

Have landed on this: 

7’ 6" egg (blendingcurves egg c).

21.5" wide. 

2" 9/16 thick. 

1" 11/16 tail rocker. 

3" 5/16 nose rocker. 

1/4" Marine Ply Stringer

48L give or take. 

Flat bottom. 

EPS foam.

Epoxy with a single layer of 6oz eglass all over. 

5 fin box FCS Fusion set up so I can experiment (yes, FCS Fusion because of reasons).

Gore Vent (glass in).

Glass in leash plug.

Rails…advice needed.

And for extra context, I’m 178cm & 63kg (5ft 10in & 137lbs). Tall-ish and skinny. 

I have been feverishly reading through the archives and thought I was ready to build, so have started (and now basically finished) acquiring supplies. I was just going to go for it without signing up here. But now Im second guessing myself…a lot. The design. The process. The supplies. You name it. I think, in a way, I’ve read too much. Too many competing opinions. There is 10 ways to get the same result. Etc. Y’all know how it is. Anyways…where to start?

So, the epoxy resin I’m going with comes in three different formulations. I went with the slow stuff (up to 30 mins) as I thought it would give me ample time to lam without feeling rushed. But now am wondering if I should have gone the medium one as I’m now a little worried about the filler coat…and all the coats. From what Ive read, one wants the filler coat to kick a little quicker so it grabs sooner and stays thicker, and reduces chaces of runs or the like. Is there a different way I should approach any of the coats with the slow stuff I’ve got, or is it not really going to matter? Could I glass in slightly cooler temps so the epoxy is a little more viscous? That’s probably not a thing lol. Also, I bought the cheapest resin I could find and that may have been a mistake. Figured its the way to go for a first build but might have made it harder for myself. I found some posts from like 5 years ago badmouthing the brand I went with. You get what you pay for, ey. Haha. Hopefully doesnt come back to bite me. And FYI, its Trojan. Apparently its just not the best, and has a tendency to blush. Time will tell.  Any more recent experiences?

Im also wondering about my choice of glassing schedule. I chose a single layer 6oz all over because I figured Im pretty light, I’m not going to be surfing big powerful waves, and even if it doesn’t last as long as doing a 6+4 on the deck, well, I’m not out there every day or anything so figured it should last long enough. Am second guessing myself now. Thoughts?

I’ll be sealing the EPS with microspheres and epoxy. How should I apply it? With a squeegee? Gloved hands in a manner reminiscent of that scene from Ghost? Lol. Make it thinner and paint it on? Am not really sure. Also, do I need to get it perfectly smooth during application, or, as I assume, I can just sand it a bit before lam?

Am also going to be painting the blank. Not the whole board, but about max 1/4 of the board on the tail end on the deck and bottom with three colours. Now I get it that its probably not wise to paint my first board as its just another layer of unneeded complication…but Im doing it anyway. Was originally going to tint the resin but decided against that after reading around. So Im planing on using water based acrylics (cheap stuff for kids?), watering it down some, and using an air spray gun and taping off. Sound legit?   

Also regarding painting the blank. A lot of people use spakle (for some reason. Even someone who has never shaped a board can see that spakle is a bad idea). Obviously spakle is opaque so one would paint on top of the spackle in that situation. But I’ll be using epoxy and microspheres. I assume its the same? Paint on top? Do I need to let it fully cure before painting? If so, thats a bummer. As I understand it if you lam before sealer coat had cured then they will chemically bond togther. Unless I paint under the epoxy microsphere sealer coat?

Are there any alternatives to rice paper for logo printing? Because I cant seem to find any rice paper in small quantities. I need one A4 sheet or less but can only seem to find it in large quantities like 30 biiiig sheets, 10m roll, etc. I dont want to have to pay $55 only to use such a tiny amount. If there are no alternatives: What weight rice paper should I be getting to print a logo onto? I’m seeing 32gsm and 60gsm. Thinner the better I presume? And what are the properties that make rice paper the go to for logo printing? Is it just that it goes clear and allows the epoxy to penetrate? And I assume everyone uses inkjet printers because the thin rice paper doesnt handle the laser/heat well in a laser printer? Or is it that the toner doesnt deal with the epoxy well? I imagine that a large dark area printed at a high dpi on the laser would perhaps not let the epoxy through well enough since its basically laying down a contiguous layer of plastic. I dont know. Just curious. The logo is just a bit of fun, nothing serious so if I cant get rice paper its no biggy. 

I’m also second guessing the decision to go with 100% glass in plugs (vent, leash, and fins…7 plugs total). I think its only going to complicate the glassing process which probably isnt a good idea for a first board. I should just be worried about the glassing itself, but now Im worried about getting it all sitting flush and not tenting around the ramp parts of the plugs (esp the fin and leash plugs). I’ve read that some people make relief cuts around those parts. So how would I go about it on the Fusion plugs, for instance? Wet it all out, get it pushed down a bit and then make a slice over one of the slots, and fully push down? Would that do it? 

And any thoughts on the nose and tail rocker for the outline I’ve chosen? Thats 1" 11/16 tail rocker and 3" 5/16 nose rocker on the blending curves egg c outline. How do you think it’ll go considering the information I’ve given? I know 3" 5/16 is low but I’m trying to keep it within a 100mm block of foam I’ve got to work with without gluing extra on the nose or tail…unless I should?

Oh, and the reason I went the FCS Fusion sytem is because I wanted to make a template myself since paying $150AUD+ for some acrylic sheet and a router bit seems a bit steep…just a bit. And the Fusion are easier for me to copy the shape of as I have remarkably atrocious CAD skills. The Fusion is basically just 2 circles joined in the middle with circle cutouts. Easy. Getting the shape of the newer ones wasnt going to be easy for me. Granted I probably could have traced em and done it by hand…as tedious as it may have been. But I’d rather just design it real quick and then bang it out on the CNC router and have it done flawlessly in 3 mins. And it worked out like a charm…they fit perfectly…all the way around (tested in some scrap foam). Another reason is also that I could get the Fusions a few dollars cheaper. So yeah…Im stingy too. Haha. Im not 100% on the layout for the 5 fin setup so far either, but I’ll deal with that when I get there.

Sorry if that was waaaay way too much for a first post. Haha. I get a bit carried away. And I’ve got plenty more…I had to stop myself…but that can wait until later. 

Thanks

2

You’ve got a good plan overall.  The shape is good for where you’re at in your progression, although for someone of your stature (and I’m assuming relatively young) a 7-0 or 7-2 length might be more versatile and better fit the curve of those conditions.   At your weight you don’t need much volume.  If you can paddle into a wave on a 7-6 then doing it on a 7-0 isn’t that much more difficult.  

The low rocker will paddle well but it will also make the timing of your transitions from paddle to surfing more tricky and it will limit the wave size that (as a novice) you’ll be able to handle to about shoulder high in mushy conditions, and in dumping beachbreak it won’t work at all for you.   Just not enough curve for that.   Good for small/mushy, though, and as your skills improve your range on this board will also increase.   

Now for fins.  I hate to break it to you, but you should put all thoughts of riding a thruster on this board out of your mind.   First off you don’t have the skills it takes to make a thruster work better for you than a quad.   Most surfers don’t until they hit a high intermediate level of skill which means most surfers can’t do better on a thruster than a quad.    In order to make a thruster outsurf a quad you have to actively surf the board and you have to have perfected your stance, which is actually more difficult to do on a longer length.   You’ve been surfing longboards.  Sight unseen, it’s still virtually a certainty that you don’t have the stance it takes to surf a thruster.   

Secondly, you have a flat rocker and you’re surfing mushy conditions.   In those conditions and on that rocker and at your skill level you most likely won’t even be making use of side fins.  You can do a 2+1 and that will make the board more versatile for you a few months down the road when you have built your skills up some, but really, that’s about it.    Besides that, it will be easier for you to get your foot over the center fin to turn the board because a 2+1 mounts further forward than a quad or thruster.   AND you won’t need the wide stance to pump a fin cluster - you can just let the board do most of the work for you.   

Trust me, putting a quad or thruster on that board won’t give you any more street cred when you’re walking the board out into the water.  Everyone is still going to know you’re a noob and to give you some space.  

Every time I see a thruster on a midlength egg in the shops I cringe.  Except for the experienced surfers who don’t need the length in order to get their waves, the target demographic for those boards are noobs who don’t have the skills to make that fin cluster work as intended.   It’s a cruel joke.  

3

Now let’s talk about glassing.   You’re coming off a longboard and you’re aiming a flat rockered egg at slow/mushy conditions.    And you’re using an EPS blank.    The only reason you’d want to go light on the glassing is if you were planning on surfing the board really agressively, which at your skill level you will not be able to do.   

True story: some years ago I did a flat rockered 7-0 singlefin in EPS, stringerless with bamboo veneers, and I glassed it with a single layer of 6-oz top and bottom, along with a layer of 4oz under the veneer.  The board ended up being too light for a singlefin in slow/mushy conditions.  It didn’t carry much momentuum and it felt a little twitchy underfoot.  I went back and added another layer of 4oz over that and the weight came out just right.  The point being that certain designs actually work better with a bit more weight.   AND putting more glass on the rail with EPS makes for a tougher board which will withstand impacts better.   Which you definitely want with EPS because of how they soak water when they get dinged.   

Really, for your first board I would suggest sticking with a regular PU blank, not EPS.   As a novice surfer you’re going to get dings, even if its in handling the board at your house.   A closed cell foam blank will be easier to fix and you won’t have the too-light problem.   Plus, you won’t have to seal a PU blank and they look much better than EPS when you paint or tint them.   Obviously I don’t think you should be trying to do color on your first board but talking new shapers out of that generally doesn’t work.   

If you do go with EPS then spackle works.  Lots of the pros use spackle without a problem.  Lots of pros don’t even seal their EPS.    Personally, I always used resin+microbaloons because I prefer the idea of epoxy bonding with epoxy, but that’s actually overkill.   Either way, mix the filler to the consistency of peanut butter and then spread it very thinly, almost dry on the outer beads of the blank.   Sealing the blank when laminating with slow setting epoxy limits drainage from the lamination into the blank while the resin sets up.   

Stick with the slow setting epoxy for now, and consider mixing your resin in two smaller batches rather than one big batch.  Mix one batch and use that to saturate the flats, then mix another batch and use that to do your rails.  Or do one side and then the other side.   That way you can take your time a bit more without running into problems with the resin setting up before you can wrap your rails.   And those videos that show the pros glassing a deck or bottom with PE resin in 8 minutes?  Put that out of your mind.   You cannot move that quickly with epoxy or else the resin will get foamy.  You have to move more deliberately with epoxy and let it soak in more as opposed to forcing the resin into the cloth.   One technique is to pour the resin out all over the board in thin strips, like decorating a cake.  That way the resin doesn’t get moved around a lot, and it doesn’t puddle anywhere (which leads to exotherm where the resin reacts faster, which you definitely don’t want).  

4

Hi Matche. That’s a lot of questions. I don’t know if gdaddy said it but you should put 2 layers on the deck no matter your weight and foam choice. I prefer polyurethane. It’s easier to shape by hand. I differ from gdaddy in that a thruster fin set up works great on an egg regardless of your level. You get early engagement of a rail fin and the no spin of a single fin. Singles are harder to surf well than a thruster because they require you move your feet a bit. Quads can be tricky getting the fin placement right. I’m not sure where the idea that thruster set ups are for advanced surfing, whatever that is. I grab a board with a thruster set up if the surf is tricky and thumping or I’m feeling too old to play on my singles or twins.

5

Thanks for the very long reply gdaddy. Seriously, thanks. I expected piecemeal advice since my original post was so long with so many questions. And thank you too rooster.

Ok, so to the meat of it. 

7’0" to 7’ 2" you think? Okay I’ll give it some thought. When you say it fits the shape of the conditions better, you mean the shape of the wave? Small and steep, right? So if I go a flatter rocker on the 7’6" length then I’ll be more likely to pearl? On a side note, am I right in thinking that beach breaks have a slightly steeper wave compared to say a point break? There’s some point breaks that I’d like yo check out in the future…so I guess I could just wait and see ey.

And so you think the 7’6’ at roughly 48L will be too much considering my weight? Do you think I should be more around the 40L mark?

Also, dont hate breaking anything to me mate. I want all the critiques. I’ve got extremely thick skin…and just want to do it as right as possible. I’d rather my idea be called idiotic now rather than my actual finished board later.

So the fins. My original though was to go the quad, but I’ve seen a few eggs with thruster setups and since its a possibility then I just thought I’d add the extra center fin for the option…for now or down the line. But, not such a good idea gdaddy? I think I’m alright, but you’re probably 100% correct that Im not ready for the thruster now. But maybe down the line? Or is it more that once I’m ready for a thruster on this board then I may have outgrown the board and want something else anyways? Roosters advice kind of complictes it though. Still not sure what to do…but still a bit of time to figure it out. 

So I’ve been on a single fin longboard up until now and dont have that much idea about how the different fin setups effect the ride. I thought this board with 5 fin boxes might help me experiment so I can see how each different setup effects the ride and get real world experience. Its easy enough to read about the different setups but I feel like experiencing them will give me a better understanding. Or is this something thats only worth doing once I’ve got all the basics perfected? Or just not really going to work on this board perhaps? I could see how experimenting as a beginner could just extend the learning process which isnt ideal. And street cred wasnt even on my mind. I actually had no idea that a 2+1 would be seen as a noob thing…I just thought it was another option. As much as I think I’m smashing it in, Im sure that anyone with an ounce of experience will be able to see I’m a noob from a mile of regardless…esp once I hit the water. Haha. Hopefully they’ll be nice enough to give me some pointers. 

Yep, not planning on surfing it aggressively. So yeah I’m hearing you both loud and clear on the extra layer of glass. I’ll pop down on the weekend and grab enough for an extra layer of 4oz on the deck.

I wish you both hadnt said that re using a PU blank. Unfortunately, I’ve already sourced the EPS and epoxy resin so its going to have to be EPS…for better or worse. Man, I really should have signed up here earlier. I was seriously considering going the PU and polyester resin, mostly because its cheaper and I’m a tight arse. But decided againts it because I thought I read that PU cant be hotwired and so getting the blank out of a block of foam seemed harder. Oh well, this is future Matts problem now. He’ll deal with it…he’s great like that. Not like past Matt…he’s a jerk haha.  

Re colour. I know, I know. And I 100% know you’re right gdaddy…including the part about not being able to talk new shapers out of it. Haha. Just got to laugh ey. But Ive been backing away from colour in the designs I’m spitballing. Thinking I’ll keep it minimal now. Just going to do something like 3 fat lines of colour. About 2in wide and about 20in long. Mostly on the bottom with their ends coming up over the rails and peeking on to the deck. Being so minimal it should be right hopefully. Bettter than the 100y coverage of my first few designs. Can post some of the basic designs I’ve spitballed if you’d like to see?

Re spakle. I wasnt aware that any pros used it. It just seemed to me that a product that dries to a brittle crumbly dusty finish wouldnt be great if a ding were to happen and water gets in. It seemed to me that it would readily soak up the water and potentially lead to a delam. Guess not. I probably should have gone that route in hindsight since its a bit cheaper (see that tight arsedness haha). I certainly wasnt aware that some people dont even seal the EPS. I was under the impression that it was a necessity. Oh well, I guess reading through some forums for a few weeks doesnt make me a pro. Lots more to learn. 

Hearing you loud and clear re doing it in two small batches. Read that being suggested a few times and was mulling it over but wasnt sure since I got the slow setting stuff. But I’ll just do it in two batches. Thanks. 

And dont worry. I never once considered those vids at all. Im fully aware that Im as green as it gets and will need to take my time…all the time available. Thats why I went with the slowest of the three available formulations. And yeah that technique is actually once thing that I had already picked up through my reading of the archives. Im going to be very cognizant of not moving it around too much or too fast without leaving it in a puddle. Let it soak in and wet the glass properly. Definitely dont want to end up with dry patches or a smoking pot of resin. 

Thanks again fellas. Some helpful stuff right there.

6

Don’t sweat the EPS.   It just takes a little more work and you have to extra careful when you’re taping it up for airspray or paint.  Your shape and rocker will work fine with it, and if you do go with a quad it will be quick off the line.  At your stature you can also move the fin cluster forward a little and use a staggered fin setup with a larger fin in front and the smaller rears.  That puts the center of effort for the fin cluster further forward where it will be a little easier to get your rear foot into that cluster.   

 

Don’t get me wrong about the thrusters on those shapes.  They work great if you have the skill to work them.    Alls I’m saying is that it takes more skill to surf those as intended because you have to have your rear foot all the way back on the tail in order to leverage the rear fin and you have to actively pump it to get it working.    Quads will still work with a less precise stance and they don’t really require pumping to work because the additional fin area out at the rail picks that energy up even with little/no pumping.   .   Whereas with the thruster getting the cluster to work ideally has your rear foot at ~4" from the tail, with a quad the sweet spot is closer to 7";, which believe it or not is a lot easier for most people to do when they’re starting out.  Especially on a longer board.    Put it this way, I think your needs next year will be different than they are this year.   

As for the volume, you can increase volume on most shapes by simply changing the shape of the deck profile to go for a flat deck with a beveled band transitioning to the rail.    It’s also less work to do the deck that way because you’re not taking as much material off.   

 

7

Let’s go with eps not a problem… If you go with spackle use a lightweight exterior one’s use just what’s needed and use enough resin to soak in when lam. Paint can reduce spackle soak so go very light with it. Depend eps density but use 6oz bottom and 2x6 Oz top at least.Lam first top layer wrapping rail let dry up to tacky but set then lam second layer wrapping rail to then when tacky fill coat so you have something to sand flat. 

8

Hey congrats on your first board build! I went through basically the exact same thing as you about two years ago so I’ll throw my two cents in the ring for ya.

First off like some others have said, 7’6" at your size and weight is probably more than you need. I’m 6’1" tall and 220 pounds and I used to ride a 7’8" softie, it was well enough for me to paddle into the smallest of waves. My first board build ended up being a 6’2" fish and that also held me up in the water and paddled super easy. In the end follow your gut, but probably something around 7 foot will be just fine for you. 

In regards to the epoxy, I did basically the same as you. I found the cheapest stuff amazon had to offer and went with that, and turns out it worked just fine. Yeah it did blush a bit and it wasn’t crystal clear but the board looked a bit like hell anyhow so no biggie for me. For your first board, just go with the cheap stuff, epoxies aren’t all that different when it comes to the important characteristics like strength. I wouldn’t worry too much aobut the slow cure epoxy. I glassed mine in coldish weather and it took forever to even set up, like over 3 hours if I can remember correctly. Overnight it was still tacky and a bit soft. Just do your taping well, take your time and watch for drips/runs. Make sure your stands and board are level. I panicked when I did my first coat thinking it would set up too quickly and that caused a few mistakes. Youre best bet IMO is to take a lot of time to get set up properly, have a plan, do all your prep and just go for it. You can always sand and/or add more epoxy, it’ll just take time (trust me, I found this out too).

For the fibreglass, I’d say go with a 6/4 on the deck. I’m a heavy guy so for me it made sense even in a smaller board, but yeah, I think a single 6oz. layer is honestly not worth it when you can just add a 4oz. layer on top at the same time. My opinion is go 6 bottom and 6/4 deck, that’s the standard for a reason, cause it’s the best balance of weight and strength. The 4oz. top layer will also make your hot coat and final sanding easier because the weave of 4oz. cloth is a lot smaller than 6, so your final sanding/coats will need to fill in less.

As far as glassing plugs go, I don’t know because I did glass on fins. I can tell you that you are definitely going to want to take your time and really analyze your relief cuts anywhere on the board. I kinda rushed that and learned a hard lesson. My glass puckered and pulled in weird ways, it wouldn lie flat on the rails near the nose, the tail was an absolute nightmare but that’s my fault for going with a swallow tail on my first build. Just saying, the less you have to worry about when it comes to glassing the better off you will be. I find fin plugs kindof intimidating personally, but my next build will probably have them. IMO just take the majority of your time in prep and really think about and analyze your placements, relief cuts and fabric and you should do fine. Honestly, I found glassing a lot easier than I was led to believe it would be, and even though I thought my board looked like absolute trash other surfers would always tell me that I did a fantastic job on the glassing…for my first board haha.

There will probably be some parts that you think will be easy and end up hard, and some parts that you think will be hard and end up easy, but just roll with it. Enjoy the process, get it as good as you can, make sure it’s watertight and you’ll be good to go no matter how beautiful or ugly it turns out. Catching a wave on a board that you built with your own hands is just a few degrees better than the feeling of catching a wave itself, which is to say, it’s absolutely glorious, but you’ll find that out soon enough. Enjoy the process, have fun with it, and post pictures!!!