Misc Laminating questions

Hey there sage dudes of sway 

I have a couple questions as we have now laminated one half of one of the boards. Couple of questions arising

  1. How many relief cuts are you doing on a normal shaped tail (I just did one in the corners) but it didnt wrap super nicely and looks ugly (sure it will be fine) 

  2. Is it normal to have some air underneath a finbox. It makes a weird little tent where the elevated part of the futures box is. Should I be doing that part first and hypersaturating the cloth there to avoid this or something (it happened on all 3 boxes on my test board)

  3. If I install a leash plug post glass I currently have only .75 inch leash plugs which seems really small. a) Is this too small or will it work b) can I use a 1 inch hole saw which will give it .125 inches on each side (this seems ok to me) but I am not entirely sure 

  4. If I am doing a black lamination are the top and bottom always going to be slightly different shades of black? Any tips for how to get them identical.

Looks great so far. Exciting to see my 4 babies looking like real boards 

Can you post pics of each dilemma?

On a Square or Squash tail;  I usually try to get away with one per corner,  two if the corners are rounded.  There is a trick used to trim off excess after cutting the slit. Fold the two overlapping pieces over and see where they come out.  Any extra tail that sticks out beyond the rail can then be trimmed off.    I use Cabbosil to thicken a cup full of resin that I use to install my Futures boxes on a clear board.  Using a cheap glue brush I brush a medium thick coat around inside the cavity.  Then I put a little extra around the flange cavity.  When I press the box in, this usually is enough resin to come up thru the slots when the box is pressed down.  I squeegee or finger wipe off the excess resin.  Then proceed to laminate.  Roll out the cloth at the tail, make sure it’s straight, pour resin down the center and start squeegee work. I do post lam install on tints and opaque.   I like my leash plugs tight.  Up to 1/8" is OK, but I prefer no more than 1/16".  I really like the Futures leash plug.  Installed just like the  boxes.  No gap to worry about and they are never crooked.  #4 I can’t answer, because without a pic;  I don’t understand what you are doing.  Lowel

Pretty easy, really. Mix up enough lam resin, with your color of choice. to do both sides. Just split it into two batches and add catalyst when you’re ready. Set second batch aside in a sealed container until you need it. One big batch, all the same color.

Thank you.This is pure genius!!! I will try to do it in a sealed yogurt container 

I will take some pictures tonight.

Regarding the relief cuts, it depends on your weave of glass. Most builders use the rectangle weave, usually called canvas, which sometimes does not like to follow the curves. I usually use “Köper” Binding, which may be translated as “twill”, this needs much less relief cuts. Additionally the weave can be more tight or more loose, the tighter the worse it follows the curves… With a looser twill fabric, you may not need a cut at all. I have read, that twill has better mechanical properties, but I use it on wooden boards. I never had any issues…

Hey everyone

 

Here is the result of the glassing I’ll show you the errors

Where the tail was folded over it made some weird folds which had to be sanded off. However since it was on the top of the board I just glassed over that with the deck layers. Is that ok?

 

Yeah I know the board is black but it’s for canada winter so should be fine(the grom wanted it black so its black)

New questions. Do I sand the fiberglass at all before the hot coat or just at the seams?



If I’m using any color in my resin at all then I tape my lap lines and cut them as they set up.   I never do a freelap unless it’s in clear.   Never.  

In this case I’d probably just fill the dents and sand flat, then tape off a tail patch to go over it all. Bring the tail patch right to the edges in your tail.    

Next time, show us pics before you start glassing so we can help you set everything up better.   It’ll save you a lot of time/effort.   

well you are in luck we are setting up board number 2 tonight! 

Alright new questions and new board

  1. when I am trying to get the top glass flush with the bottom the sanding takes forever. Is this normal?  

  2. am I supposed to unearth my finboxes before or after the hot coat?

2b)my fin boxes have holes when I am sanding them out? What the hell?? Do I need to glass patch them now 

  1. here is my next board and tape for the bottom 




First things first.  On your next board you need to stop immediately before proceeding any further.   That shape needs improvement before you spend any money to glass it.      I mean that as a helpful suggestion, not as an affront.   I know you’ve got your heart set on knocking it out quickly, but haste makes waste.   If you stick with us on this we’ll help you make some big steps in your shaping progression.  You’ll be way happier with the outcome.   

Now back to other questions.  The reason you’re having problems getting it all flush is because everything underneath was lumpy to begin with.   Fitting the boxes prior to glassing is a good way to do it if you have the skills to do that, but it’s honestly easier to laminate the blank first and then install the boxes afterwards and put a patch over them to seal them.   You’ll get a tighter lamination and cleaner laps if you don’t have to fuss with getting the fin boxes right at the same time.    

Another tip for the new glasser is to start out with narrower laps.  I know the 3" laps look cool but it’s also harder to wrap them and get them tight when you’re just starting out.    For now, just stick with 1" wide laps - that’s plenty.  Once you master those then you can work your way up to the fat laps.   

Long story short, don’t try to emulate what the pros are doing with their vids.  It takes a lot of time and effort to get your skills up to that level.  For now, try to adjust your technique to fit your current skill level.  If it takes you 8 hours do refine your shape then it is what it is.  If it takes you an hour to lay a lamination then it is what it is.   In the long run, working clean is way better than working fast.   You’ll get faster as you go.   

What is wrong with the shape?

This is what it looks like without tape on it

 

The template isn’t bad but the rails and foil need work.  Especially at the tail.   

Here are a couple of pics showing the rail profiles on a traditional Steve Lis style fish.   They include the thickness measurements.  You’re probably running a thicker board overall (which is fine), but the proportions should be similar.  


These pics show how shapers typically bring the thicknesses at the tips way down.   It’s hard to find good pics showing foils on the internet because most people who post those pics are retailers who don’t know anything about shaping.   


Now looking at what you’re working on, what I’m seeing is a very blocky shaped rail profile at the tail block.  Do you see the top corner on your stringer?  That corner is practically a 90* angle.    The bottom of the stringer stays where it is, but the top of that corner should be at past to the tapeline, 2-3" forward of where is it now, and its angle should be closer to 30*, and ideally it will be blended into the deck similar to how we turn a rail.   

Bringing the angle of the inside corner of the buttcrack down will also lead to blending the rest of the tail into the deck.    In the pic of the yellow board above, the thickness of those tips at 1" in from the rail is going to be somewheres around 3/4".  Not 1.75" or 2".   

The beaked nose is part of this design, too.   It’s not 50/50 rounded, but rather carries that tucked shape and deck bands from the rail profile from the rest of the board.  The point being that with this design the rail profile tapers at the ends but otherwise retains the same overall shape and proportions.    


And lastly, pay close attention to this detail in the rail diagram above.  That little tiny bevel between the rest of the bottom and the rail itself.   It’s marked “Belly Rise” on his diagram but we also call it a bevel or a chine.  What that little feature does is smooth the ride out, particularly when used on boards with a lot of width.  Without it you get a more abrupt transition and it makes the board a little harder to turn.   It’s not as pronounced as using roll or belly in the bottom contour and it won’t have as much affect but for some designs it adds just the right amount of additional control.   

Honestly this is so helpful

I couldnt find any good indication of how thick to make the fricking tail so I just picked an arbitrary number (I think 1.25) and I was just operating on my assumption from the other boards that a square tail was a happy tail. But looking at your pictures I should definitely blend that into the deck and knock down a bunch of foam in the center. The problem is I already sealed that stupid blank.

I like the idea of using a closer lapline. Ill just add two more rows of tape to each side which should take care of that.

Thanks!

Uhh, about that lapline.  You can do better with the curve.  You can make a rail band marking tool that will run a pencil line parallel to your rail and just tape to that line.  That will give you a much cleaner curve.    You don’t need to buy one, you can just make it out of scraps.  A couple pix below.

 

And you will also be doing yourself a favor if you use better tape.  That blue painter’s tape sucks for adhesion and the resin will leak under it.   Good tape is more expensive but it will save you a bunch of rework.     You only really need the good stuff for the line you’re laying.  The rest that you’re taping off can be done with the cheaper tape and paper.    

 


This looks like it was shaped by someone who’s never seen a surfboard before.

Time out people.

So what I’m hearing is that the tail is way too thick. What else you got 

Gotta give something constrictive if you are gonna call my second board ever an abomination of the sea. I wanted lots of volume for lake slop. Probably went a bit overboard…