I am curious what methods you all might employ to see where extra thickness or foam is. For example, on my last two boards I’ve had plenty of foam to work with, foiled the deck to what looks to me to be flat, shaped the bottom, and gotten to the point of putting in the tuck and bands. Now before i start the tuck i notice what looks to be more foam on one side, but i dont have a reliable method of telling if its on the bottom or the deck. i use a large level stick throughout the process which often shows a level surface, but then later on i run into this problem and its extremely frustrating.
One thing I need to rule out are my shitty racks. my garage space has uneven floors, but i have managed to get a pretty legit setup with flat even/level racks. they definitely could use some improvement, but that aside, I am wondering what folks use to identify the problem i stated above. My friend has a tool that is essentially a rail marker tool that holds several colored pencils, and will reveal more colors/less colors on a given side if something is uneven. Perhaps this is what i need.
it seems that often what i can see visually is fighting what “numbers” i might take to try and true up sides, which is a dishearteneing realization. I know that (hopefully) more time with the planer and foiling blanks will resolve this problem. it is also worth noting that for the most part I use an un-modified planer and despite it being on the same depth my right side might take more than the left, i think this is due to pressure…
Sorry to ramble, but you can see my confusion. Thanks in advance, and i hope you’re all getting out and surfing.
I think your cocerns are common to many and no apology is needed.
What helped me see the most was a decent set of side lights which I got going after board #2 or 3…
I also revisited my stands (5 gallon pails with concrete for bases) and adjusted height, foam pads, etc. to get the most out of them. Before I start a new board in a different room I check for level and shim if needed.
I do EPS off the block so it is sled cut and planshaped and banded via hotwire, but the rest of the foiling is on me.
I am not good with the depth control on a planer either so I often run ‘unmodified’ mode too.
jrandy - i tend to think it probably is my racks the more i think about it, and thus i get a false showing of “level” when i use the level. the racks definitely need to be revisited. i think the base is solid but the arms are what need some love. they are a poor construction of 2x4, and not even deep enough to properly set a board on rail. ive just been dealing, but its time to fix them.
i do have sidelights that could be improved also. they’re only 4 feet long at present, and not necessarily the brightest. is there a general brightness that is used?
nice to hear on the unmodified as well. i use my friends modified hitachi sometimes and it seems too loose to me for what i would want out of a modified planer. i also would want one where the depth adjustment is at the front like some skils ive seen and not just the main knob. i definitely want to prioritize my shaping room ahead of a new planer.
Everyone has their process. This is how I’ve been doing it.
I skin the bottom and template that first. Square up sides. Measure my thicknesses and skin the deck so that both sides come out even. Then I tweak the deck rocker if it’s not already right. If I’m going to do any actual foiling on the deck it will usually be limited to the last 12" of the tail. I don’t screw around with trying to foil the deck side of the nose.
After the deck is set up then I do the bottom rocker and the remaining foil from there. If I’ve chosen the right blank and rocker to begin with then I’m usually adding rocker to the nose and tail to get to their desired thicknesses. That means that unless I’m using a close tolerance blank that doesn’t need much work to get to the finished shape I’m otherise ordering my blanks much flatter than I intend the bottom rocker to turn out.
I guess more directly, my question is - if at some point it becomes apparent that one side (rail) has more foam than the other, and its not obvious whether its the deck or bottom (sometimes it is obvious), how can one discern which side has the discrepancy? what tricks or tools are used for this?
This is a Bruce Jones Shaping Bay Video / Interview from the makers of the boardroom movie.
I think the method to’ level out’ the blank shown around minute 20 is essential to avoid having a twisted shape . The parallelity of the level sticks can show you where you need to remove foam.
I use this at all stages of the process.
I agree that you can develop an eye for that, but i know i cant trust mine
In addition to good side lighting, one useful trick I learned here is using a string or thin rope draped over the blank with a little weight (like a pinch clamp) each side to pull it tight, really shows the high spots / low spots.
Another quick check for rails is to lay your rocker stick (or a nice flat yardstick) across your shaped blank widthwise (perpendicular to the stringer/longitudinal axis). Check at several intervals along the length.
Good lights, sanding blocks, calipers, a square and a level. If you see something that doesn’t look right, put the calipers on it. Run your hands and fingers down each side applying slight pressure in a grip. Train your hands to feel any difference in the two sides. A Surform drug toward you or fanned across the deck is a great tool to remove high spots once you find them. I’ve removed the handle and knob from my Surform and use it in a semi circular motion reaching across the blank. Flattens and removes bumps. I have always used a Surform at least a little in my shaping, but learned the no knob or handle method from Terry Senate. Works great. Doesn’t hurt to keep track of passes with the plainer when you are learning. Learn to angle the planer as you make each pass. Mastering proper technique will insure that each pass is the same. I recommend watching the Ben Aipa shaping video by Fiberglass Hawaii. Straight forward technique and answers a lot of questions. PS. Another reason to modify a player. If you leave the clicker/depth adjustment unmodified and do not adjust it on the fly; You will have problems with bumps. If you leave it set at one depth, it will bounce at every natural bump in the blank. Especially when skinning and early passes. Sort of like driving a car through a series of dips in a highway. The planer will bump and jump when you hit the natural imperfections in the surface of the blank.
Plus one on feeling the lumps and bumps. Your hands " see" the highs and lows before your eyes. A planner with a long base should ride over the high spots where as a short planner will follow them.
I would agree that using a flatter blank in general and taking thickness out while adding the appropriate rocker sounds ideal. This certainly takes adequate prep work to get all the numbers jiving
Looks like I’ve started watching that video in the past. Your additional comment about the parallelity of the sticks to each other made the light bulb click as to what exactly he was doing. It wasn’t clear to me before.
he displays mastery with the planer in that video…
Here are some photos of my side lights. Could benefit from added length for sure. The last one is a sanding block, but not the greatest pic of it. Definitely works to shows high/low spots. I need to be more diligent with it and really all of these tips.
McDing - thanks for the thoughtful response, as it is detailed. I’ve watched that aipa video several times since I’ve started shaping, and each time something always translates that didn’t before.
I’ve got two 9’8s to play with, and going to try the initial passes with the modified planer for sure.
I need to stick with good habits and appreciate that much of these responses have echoed similar techniques and practices
