Hello, Hope someone on here can help me out. I got a new to me board. 6’2" x 22" x 2 7/8" Retro Fish. Took it out for the first time today on a kind of fat headhigh pointbreak. As I was paddling out I was thinking oh my this board is going to go great in these waves… However. That was not the case. There was ZERO drive. If I went to the bottom of the wave the thing turned on a dime right back up. It was terrible, but I couldn’t get the board to bite and gain any speed. I liken it to when surfing a longboard or Single fin and the Fin is way to far forward for the day… This board is Wide… 10.5" from point to point at the tail. I had some simple Plastic F8 Futures in the front and some smaller Plastic Futures in the back… The board paddles nice and catches waves easily. I’m thinking the Fins are the main cause of the board surfing like absolute crap. I felt like I need Way more fin or further back to tighten the board up and allow for some down the line drive…
Should I switch the Bigger fins to the back?
Should I get some of those Wider Keel type fins I see around?
I don’t want to spend 150$ on Fins… But I would spend $50-$70 on something which would improve the board.
The idea for this board is to surf this on big days at this left hand point break. The Long Boarders all sit in a pack at the Peak, but I can duck dive this board and sit inside and have much of the medium waves (which line up nice ) without the crowd… So the board needs Drive. The whole idea of the Fish was to have some speed to burn on this kind of chubby Left Hander…
You’re dating the PAWG. It takes a lot of fin area to control a fat ass. The original Steve Lis 5"6" fish used a 5" tall keel with a 9" base that equals out to about 30" of fin area. Your board will have 20% more volume and 6" longer rail line. That F-8 is reported as having 15.9". It’s just not enough, even with a 12" rear. The Controller set has a 18.28"+12" combo.
For a long time, Futures only sold 50/50 symmetrical foil fins for their 1/2" boxes, but now I guess they’re selling quad rears with a flat asymm foil (QD2) in 3 sizes up to 4.15". If you’re a big guy and the 50/50s feel too loose for you then a 3.75" or 4" fin with a flat foil makes for a good rear and you can dial in your preferred combo by scaling the front fin.
Probably your cheapest solution would be to keep your rear and get a T-1 twin (19.8") in the Thermotech plastic and try that with your existing rears. When used with a 50/50 rear in a quad the T1 might be big enough, although probably not the optimal combo unless your own weight is under 160#. It would certainly be an improvement over an F8.
If you’re going to go with a keel then you have some options in terms of those sizes, so your own weight comes into play. If you weigh more than 210# then you probably have enough leverage to push around one of the big 25" keels +trailer, but that’s a LOT of fin area. If you weigh less than that the K2 template is at 22.25", so that would be the interim size between the T1 and the bigger keels.
I forgot to mention that the split keel design was intended to be run in close cluster, so I wouldn’t recommend that unless your install used (what I call) the Orange County cluster where the flanges of the boxes almost touch. Builders elsewhere have been running more separation with their boxes, like 1.1/2" or more.
Gdaddy thanks for that insightful reply, I think a buddy has some Twin Fin Keel Fins and I’ll give those a try in the Front position, another buddy said I could try out the Controller Alpha Fins. Hopefully one of those will radically change the way this board rides, or else it’s going away… Over here in Big Island it’s tough to find boards.
I thought it through all night with the explanation of Fin Area and Fin offset, I figure these fin boxes are 2.5" apart center to center… so that takes away from the effectiveness of the Area of the Fins in ‘biting’ or ‘driving’ a Wide RetroFish compared to Fin Boxes which are closer which allow both fins to connect their water flow more directly. 25" of fin Area on a Quad with the boxes almost touching will have a lot more drive and bite than 25" of the same fins with the boxes 2.5" apart… Based off the 5’6" Steve Lis getting 30" of Twin Fin, this board at 6’2" x 22" should get @15% more Fin Area, but as it is a quad and the fin boxes are quite far apart, should be more like 20%. I’m pretty light at 165#, but I’m looking for more drawn out turns, and it’s easy enough to loosen a board up… So, I’m thinking this board really needs @36" of Fin… The only way I see to get this is by using a Twin Fin Keel with 25" and a Trailer with 12". I know that sounds drastic, but this board was completely useless with the F8 + trailer… might as well have been riding a door. Let’s see how it goes.
I would say it’s good to be aware of the numbers but to not get tooo caught up in the math.
At 165# you’re a middleweight, so there will definitely be a point of diminishing returns in terms of fin area. Small and medium sized surfers are what most of the retail fins are designed for. Same with rear fins: the small and medium sized surfers tend to prefer the 50/50 symmetrial foils because they add control.
You will probably do fine with a T-1 + your existing rear.
I’m following up on this thread so that it might help out anyone else in a similar shituation as I was before. Those standard F8 Future Quad fins were completely useless in this board. I was thinking it might be the board… We are having a nice run of South Swell ova here in Hawaii, so I tried out a few set ups to see what worked. There was one very clear winner… This board at 6’2" and wide and 43 ltr and me being 165lbs, needed a Ho lot of Fin to make it work. I tried out the Controller set up and it was okay… I tried out the Keel Fins as a twin fin and it was too loose. Tried the Keel fins with the F8 Quad Rear fins and it was a little squirelly. Then I tried the Keel fins with the Controller Rear Fins and everything came together, way more drive off the bottom and can still snap it around at the top. Maybe in a different fin box configuration this would be too much, but for me, with these boxes being @ 2.5" apart, this set up works good. Tried it on some Headhigh runners, and also some double overhead walls… Board sure appreciates a little more juice and really liked the glassy versus the onshore… Eay to catch waves.
