In my honest opinion,,, Reducing epoxy resin of any kind with thinning chamicals surely reduce the overall strength of the pure A and B components...Same goes for tints but to a lesser extent...
Thinning is done for " convenience"
I also believe that the thinning of said epoxy systems with acetone, or even isopropyl alcohol cause the cured epoxy to become brittle....
I thin epoxy with iso. alcohol only when I want to seal coat dyed bamboo or balsa wood, to prevent the dye from leaching out of the wood..
.I don't want to leave a heavy coat of resin much like a hot coat, but just a thin film to stop the dyes from running onto other areas.. These solvents help to do just that,,, but the epoxy resin that's left after the solvents evaporate,,, isn't like the regular shit you'd want lay down when laminating..........
I would never, as in NEVER, add either of these chemicals to epoxy that I was laminating with.... If the manufacturer of the epoxy system wanted that to happen, wouldn't they add the stuff in the mix themselves??
Isopropyl alcohol when over-used to thin epoxy leaves it brittle,,, I'm sure acetone would do the same... I'm not really convinced R.R.s additive F would not do the same if the ratio was too high..... These chamicals remove the fat from your skin cells,,, they probably take the flex and strengh out of epoxy systems in much the same manner............inho.
I agree with all. When we invented Add F we made it as concentrated as we could so you use the least you can. Additives can give some advantages in certain applications but it's something you have to be careful about doing.
I enjoy not having to revert to board builds that are done
with pure epoxy / glass combinations, then painted over with the most
expensive/ toxic 2 part paint systems known to man...
Swaylocks has led me to the application of color the "old school" way, as in paints, dyes, tints under the glass..
I firmly believe that every chemical, be it a tint, thinner, UV
stabilizer, etc... that you add to the pure A/B epoxy mix weaken the
structure to some degree..
Now here's a shop that adds
acetone to thin resin for a cold climate build.... I can't belive
that... That's just asking for trouble...
In all due
respect,........... You have been praising the additive F aspect of
your system.... Some here might think that they should add Add F to
every laminate, where I believe it's use should be geared towards the
final finish, as in hot/gloss coats, not necessarily in the lam..
(sp) might be the answer??, but it's still a thinner./ solvent that
reduces viscosity... and might increase the "brittle" aspect....
vac. bag, my glass lams, with a peel ply to allow for later adhesion
to the glass when hot coating.or painting.. Why should I add F to my
lam. at all under these conditions...??
The above questions
asked,,,,,, I love my K.K. and I'm slowly learning how to be a better /
quicker vac. bagger when using this stuff on a vac table full time...
Additve F gives more than just good finish characteristics. I enhances bond between layers. At 1% it effect on structural integrity can't even be measured while the adhesion it provides between layers is huge. You certainly don't need it if your bagging though. Bagging eliminates blush which is the real problem in successive layer adhesion.
We've done a myraid of tests to nail this down. I've also built personally 10,000 epoxy boards. I've sold resin for 30 years and 500,000 surfboards and have never seen this until now. I've been trying to reproduce this for four months and because of the guys here and one brave soul who will remain forever nameless (deepthroat?) have discovered what happened. Pretty much yes ... only a ketone will produce this effect. Xylene wouldn't have done it,,, styrene wouldn't have done it ,,,, denatured alcohol wouldn't have done it. Acetone is a ketone which every surf factory has. 2+2=4 every time in chemistry. Chemicals don't lie.
Sorry you got involved here Buster ... you seem like a really decent guy ... but your participation brought forward deepthroat so .....
No waves nothing to do and decided to change the wax on one of the two boards that I had glassed at the same time, busted out the pink one just to check its mood. The daily driver is as grey as old dishwater top and bottom and the pink one is now orange as sherbet on the deck and lap but the bottom is white as snow. The glass on fin rope is greenish as expected for the volume of glass.
Greg you have done some testing within the last two days and claim to have reproduced pink. I am kind of curious the boards in question did not turn color for weeks if not months and many saw no sunlight or UV. I am sure that you are protecting your business and doing all that you can but your testing procedures are not equivalent and technically will not hold up, respectfully. Did you know that any reduction in cure rate whether it be by a ketone or reducer of any type along with cold temps (slow cure rate) will allow far more off gassing to blanket the epoxy during cure and that this gassing assists in "bluming"? Many different factors many different colors.
As business owner needing the consumer the publicity that you are generating is as inflammatory and more so than you state my original post was and you have asked not to call names but are you now calling me "Deepthroat"? I mean really discussing your PM's with the shop over the net rather than try to resolve this regardless of how you two disagree is pretty disgusting example of your image and how you will treat any new customer that has a problem. It’s funny not one blog from Hamish and not one defamatory statement leaked from his shop other than by you or your staff. I found out about the failures through a local glass shop the owner knows I surf this brand he asked me if I had any problems that’s when I checked my board and noticed it was pink. Just thought I would throw that out there because I know I will be accused of being the leak I am sure.
First off, your not deep throat .. there was another who was at that shop when mixing was going on that contacted me because of what was being written here. I don't meant to implement you in any way. I've also tried NOT to be inflammatory but truthful about my findings. As far as remarks coming from that shop there have been plenty ... just ask around a bit. And as you can see from reaction here the pink is all happening in one shop.
I can see you know a little chemistry. With respect, from what you've written, epoxy is not your specialty and your venturing up an entirely wrong tree. We know precisely the players and what caused the discoloration . Your not even in the right forest.