9'6" lightning bolt gun

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

I'm going to attempt to build a hollow wood surfboard 9'6" lightning bolt gun, so I'm collecting information, photos, etc.

What I have so far is the length 9' 6", width 21", wide point forward, pintail single fin with v, flat rocker (6" front 3" back).  I've been told that the tail rocker and v began about 18" from the back.

Some questions I have are, does 3" thick sound right, or were they thicker?  How about rails?  Really, any pics or drawings of rocker on a board like this would be very helpful.

Thanks for any help.  This is not a true replica, being as its gonna be built as a hws, but I want to get the shape right.  In my mind I'm picturing something like this pic from Balsa's show thread:

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dlock's picture
Joined: 10/18/2007

I hope some of the masters pipe in. 

This is the 9'6 pintail I have,

more tail rocker than your numbers though. nose is around 5.25 and tail 4.5 something, the centerline is @ 1.5

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TonyLion's picture
Joined: 09/02/2010

Hello Huck, I am not a shaper but I recently ordered a similar board and have been doing some research on the design. Mine will be something around 10'2", we ordered a usblanks 10'6" A Green density with a thick stringer.  I guess you will need something like a 9'9" A.

Wow, that is a real gun you are going to shape, where will you be riding it?

From what I have researched, wide point should be around 6" - 8" up. Nose width between 10" and 11", tail around there too, maybe a bit narrower than the nose. The width you sugested is about right. I decided to keep as much width and thickness from the blank as possible for paddling but thickness should be under chest, tail should be foiled thin and pintail should be "spiky". Deck will be flat to just at the rail where it will go to a down rail with much sharpness on the aft section. Beak nose to keep some foam up there. Bottom, some suggest v to flat to panel v to flat behind the fin, after closely examining a similar Country Surfboards gun we have in the shop, we decided to go with a flat at the tip to basically a slight v throughout most of the bottom, increasing in front of the fin an then flat behind the fin. I have read that this is the bottom Bill Barnfield used on these types of boards.

As for rocker, your numbers sound right. In my case we will go about 3" tail and just flow with the blank's rocker without tweeaking it too much so the entry rocker will be greater than 6" in my board. From what I have researched, gun rocker should be continuous and flowing with no flat spots, breaks or kicks that can catch when you are going fast and trying to survive. It is suposed to be a simple and functional board.

Glassing, we will probably go double 10 oz top and bottom, gloss finish and bright orange color so I can find it when I lose it.

What I am still trying to find out is what fin to use and how far up should it be placed. I guess a board like this doesn't need a fin that is too deep because of the tail spike and the outline/rails in the tail.

Again, I am not a shaper just a surfboard design nerd who likes to read a lot and listen to what experts have to say. Swaylocks is very cool because you can get the experienced shapers and designers to give you some great advice and you get to read some very interesting stories along the way. Maybe Bill Barnfield or Thrailkill can help.

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kensurf's picture
Joined: 06/19/2007

Huck

ya that is a sweet board that Balsa posted,,, google images will give you more pics

all this information posted seems to be accurate

but remember ,,there were lots of variations in these boards in the 70's,, tail widths, rails etc,,etc,,

but down rails were the norm,,, hard at the tail end

where the board is surfed is a major factor for all things shaped,,,

Island boards are surfed in powerfull waves as compared to California Mainland waves

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chrisp's picture
Joined: 05/30/2006

if they don't comment here, it'd be a good idea to PM Bill Thrailkill, Bill Barnfield, and Deadshaper...

really looking forward to this build thread and finished product! i'm sure with your skills and that shape, it's going to be a knockout!

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

Thanks dlock, Tony, and Ken for the help, and thanks Chris for the vote of confidence!  I'm a little intimidated by the project, but determined.

So 3" thick sounds right to me, since the deck is pretty flat through the center then that should be plenty of volume appropriate to the shape.  Since mine is for Calif. waves, it'll have bit wider tail than the Hawaii gun that Balsa posted. 

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surfding's picture
Joined: 12/28/2005

Hi Chrisp:

The rockers are mathmatically calculated and base on the Nose and Tail being even and capturing the correct curve.

Thickness are in consideration of the length. 

Surfding

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DEADSHAPER's picture
Joined: 03/23/2007

I would defer to BB as he was there makng them.............DS

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chrisp's picture
Joined: 05/30/2006

deadshaper wrote:

I would defer to BB as he was there makng them.............DS

ha ha, oops... for some reason i thought you were too? i don't know why i thought that

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

If anybody has pics of a Calif. lightning bolt gun, would be greatly appreciated!  Esp. showing rails, rocker, deck, fin, bottom, etc. 

At this point I'm planning on a relatively flat deck through the middle, rails more down than neutral, single fin with slight v out the tail, rocker pretty much as sketched.

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kensurf's picture
Joined: 06/19/2007

Im sure the "customer" will like the board when its done.

 

I cant keep a straight face too much longer,,,

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everysurfer's picture
Joined: 09/20/2008

O.K. Ken...

Is it Roy?

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kensurf's picture
Joined: 06/19/2007

everysurfer wrote:

O.K. Ken...

Is it Roy?

 

Ha!,,,,, you will have to ask Huck

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johnmellor's picture
Joined: 03/17/2004

It might be worth pointing out that the rocker dimensions in the diagrams are based on Surfding's preferred computer program which has the profile tilted forward. 

The (more or less) standardized method of rocker measurement with 'zero at center' does not apply.

I would be curious what the rocker measurements are with a 'zero at center' reference.

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surfding's picture
Joined: 12/28/2005

Hi John: Please forgive my igorance.

The previous plans the rocker was expressed in engineering terms.

These examples presented here are expressed in a shapers terms.

Keep in mind were surfing 20' Plus waves.

I think I will take a time out and read a book in my "ZEN ROOM"!

Kind regards,

Surfding

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kensurf's picture
Joined: 06/19/2007

surfding wrote:

Hi John: Please forgive my igorance.

The previous plans the rocker was expressed in engineering terms.

These examples presented here are expressed in a shapers terms.

Keep in mind were surfing 20' Plus waves.

I think I will take a time out and read a book in my "ZEN ROOM"!

 

Kind regards,

Surfding

 

 

Man Surfding,,, thats a lot of rocker!

I think this board is for cali surf,, probly wont be out in much over 10 ft waves

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surfding's picture
Joined: 12/28/2005

I think this board is for cali surf,, probly wont be out in much over 10 ft waves

Then you need to make it a 7'6

I was told the board was to be 9'6

Flatter rocker on a gun is sucide.

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kensurf's picture
Joined: 06/19/2007

surfding wrote:

I think this board is for cali surf,, probly wont be out in much over 10 ft waves

 

Then you need to make it a 7'6

I was told the board was to be 9'6

 

Ding

after putting on my magnafying glasses I se the tail is at 3.29 which is actualy close to what I was thinking which was about 3"

and the nose is at 7.9  I believe,,, I was thinkin about 6" at the nose just for and little more glide on the not so steep waves.

 

what do you think?

 

 

Flatter rocker on a gun is sucide.

 

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surfding's picture
Joined: 12/28/2005

Sorry for my misunderstanding!

3" tail rocker

6" nose rocker would be great for the waves intended

The plans I posted were some boards I have made for Puerto Escondido and Todos Santos.

I few years ago I made a 9'1" California Gun for Large surf however easy drops.

The rocker was less severe. Big South Orange County type waves.

I wil re-post some more realistic plans.

 

Kind regards,

 

Surfding

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johnmellor's picture
Joined: 03/17/2004

Hi Michael -

Thanks!  It's much easier for me to get my head around zero center point.  5.9" tail rocker as shown in first diagram seems excessive if you're used to raw numbers.

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MikeDaniel's picture
Joined: 05/03/2007

Geez guys, surfding is trying to help by handing over some good stuff, and you're worried about where the reference line is on his rocker? Or that contemporary rocker might be ''too much''?

Try and find a 70s ''lightning bolt California gun'' at 9'6'', to copy. That might be a challenge in itself, most guns in the 70s were in the 7'-8' range.

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johnmellor's picture
Joined: 03/17/2004

"and you're worried about where the reference line is on his rocker?"

Yeah, you're right.... 5.9" vs 3.29".   No big deal.  LOL 

Zero center is pretty standard from what I've been reading around here.  Apparently it does make a difference. 

Take a tip from Bill Barnfield. 

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MikeDaniel's picture
Joined: 05/03/2007

John, I hope you ''get it'' now that surfding did a good job of explaining it. A bottom rocker is just a 2D curve in space, it doesn't matter where you locate the reference line. The curve stays the same. If you're measuring rocker while handshaping, going off center is the standard. But it's easy to translate #s from a ''tips-level'' measurement to ''tangent-center'', as surfding says. And you'll get exactly the same curve.

 

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

Surfding - thanks for the drawing - sweeeeet!  The rocker and cross-sections are very helpful, the planshape is awesome!  Love it, and really do thank you for taking the time and effort on that.

I'm still looking for photos or info on fins. 

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surfding's picture
Joined: 12/28/2005

Wow! Full 70's outline. Had many boards like that in 77' on the North Shore. Easy to ride. If you do a single fin I have the template.

 

Kind regards,

Surfding

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surfding's picture
Joined: 12/28/2005

Sleeping on the job!

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balsa's picture
Joined: 06/11/2004

surfding wrote:

Sleeping on the job!

You must be dreaming some sweet dreams, Mike, don't you?

Kind regards from France. Guilhem.

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surfding's picture
Joined: 12/28/2005

Thanks for stopping by while you and your daughter were un California.

All the best!

Michael

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surfding's picture
Joined: 12/28/2005

reduced rocker for the Cali Gun

Lopez Style 7'1 (use a US 73A Blanks)

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surfding's picture
Joined: 12/28/2005

Hi John: pretty standard is ZERO CENTER. However I have learned over the last 6 years to use TRUE MATH. This comes from working with PhD's of Math and Physics. They work in true values so that the translation in to G-Code can work with a Multiple Axis Machine. There is a Technic that Phil Edwards would use that is more in line with TRUE MATH were he would maintain the nose and tail at ZERO then proceed to take the numbers every 3" from a Level Horizontal Line. The same way the Academics do it. These are only expressed numbers however the rockers will be the same between ZERO CENTER and TRUE MATH. For example I have taken a rocker stick profile generated by a well know shaper that works with ZERO CENTER just like BB. I scan his board (TRUE MATH) and generate a rocker stick profile from the program file and low and behold they match dead even. However the values are expressed differently. Knowing the translation between the two has been very useful dealing with various shapers. It's only a matter of expressed values.

Don't really know if this kind of information is useful here on swaylock?

Kind regards,

Michael

(Surfding)

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claude's picture
Joined: 08/19/2007

surfding wrote:

Don't really know if this kind of information is useful here on swaylock?

 

Kind regards,

Michael

(Surfding)

 

Very useful, keep posting.

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johnmellor's picture
Joined: 03/17/2004

"I have learned over the last 6 years to use TRUE MATH. This comes from working with PhD's of Math and Physics. They work in true values so that the translation in to G-Code can work with a Multiple Axis Machine. There is a Technic that Phil Edwards would use that is more in line with TRUE MATH were he would maintain the nose and tail at ZERO then proceed to take the numbers every 3" from a Level Horizontal Line. The same way the Academics do it."

 

Sheesh Michael -

I can barely balance my checkbook and now I'm supposed to understand TRUE MATH?  I didn't know academics even shaped surfboards.  EVERYONE knows there's no money in it. 

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surfding's picture
Joined: 12/28/2005

Sheesh Michael -

I can barely balance my checkbook and now I'm supposed to understand TRUE MATH?  I didn't know academics even shaped surfboards.  EVERYONE knows there's no money in it. 

TRUE

You got to love it.

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cjsurf's picture
Joined: 10/18/2009

interesting education on rocker, thank you mr ding and mr mellor for bringing it up

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cjsurf's picture
Joined: 10/18/2009

mr ding and a sup fresh from his multiple axis machine

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stingray's picture
Joined: 12/24/2004

Hello Huck ,

I have a Clark Foam catalog from 2005......I paid off my credit cards....I have no clue about gun rocker......Keith Melville and Resinhead build some very nice guns.....

Ray

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