THICK board, SKINNY rails.

Half way thru doing a longboard I wondered what would the effect be of taking the rails r-e-a-l-l-y thin, like 9 mm.

 So as a test board I did a paipo thats 3 in thick thru the centre and the rails are 9 mm.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/SURFFOILS%202010/Z025-1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/SURFFOILS%202010/Z023-1.jpg[/IMG]

1/2 shaped...

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/SURFFOILS%202010/Z022.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/SURFFOILS%202010/Z024-1.jpg[/IMG]

 What do you think the performance will be ?

 I was thinking it will make it faster because theres less rail volume pushing thru the water. 

That is one awesome craft.  Is the “chamber” supported by any bracing?  Are the keels removable? 

Strong work.

Hey Foils...same same but different -

 

My latest personal board. I was thinking a lot of things with this one, not all of which I've rationalised. -

Tail foil very fine and down-railed but with a chunky raised centre arch-bar, which'l keep some good volume.

So lets glass 'em and ride 'em...

 

JD

 

 

 



interesting work guys...dunno bout the arch bar , no good for me , I have ultra flat feet..but like the different approaches....bit of mini-simmons influence there Surfoils ???   I guess its an extreme version of a flat deck really...and they work well, good way to maintain volume but still have a fine rail to still give a responsive feel....keen to see these come to life.....

Out of my small collection (and already posted here), a Greek board that he made around 1969:

 

 

 

 

Ive built two of them.  One for me and one for a friend.  Both boards ride amazing, the design allows the board to carry more thicjness (float) while still providing high performance rails.  Im 6' and weigh 215 lbs and ride a 6', 20 wide board, I just took it to Hermosa and rode it on overhead barreling fast beach break waves and it was amazing.  Here is a pic of the 5'10" one I made for a guy who raves about its performance.

Interesting too see that the earlier board like The Greeks one, is a rounded style, whereas the modern designs like Lovinlife's are more 'digital' with sharper lines and angles.

When will we go to minimalist kiteboard rails and then the 'lovingly contoured rail' becomes an old skool relic ?

Speedneedle,  the glass on the convex arch bar would add rigidity to the board..

 and the Arch Bar concept makes me think what about a board where all the volume is in an enlarged foam arch bar and the hull is just a 1/2 think compsand sheet of honeycomb,epoxy and Innegra ? Taking design into greater specialising.

 Like Lovinlifes or your design, just taken further ?


Its amazing how precedents pop up...that Greek...

 

And Pridmore, yep, I have high-arches. You'd be better with a concave than a bar.

 Here's anothery -

 

JD

Thats a cutie ! Who owns her ?

Hey foils...the owner of that one posts here as "Slash" otherwise known to me as Wingnut. He needs a 5'10 to fit his bicycle trolly in which the board will cross the Nullabor. Hence the square nose. Its really a 6'6...

 

I just missed your prior post before doing mine...and the concept you suggest is ticking over. One could have detachable volume, swap the same volume section onto a different outline.

Preformed composite sheets milled to any custom dims, no glassing required, heat-set to a custom rocker, with molded float sections ready to add.

The idea of not having to make a whole board for every potential trial run of a different combination is pretty enticing.

With say, your hydro foil ply whatsits, have you found that the different rail types in your illustration make as much difference in a rail thats only plywood-thick?

I.e how much hold or release difference might be achieved in the 9mm roll space?

JD

[quote="$1"]

Hey foils...the owner of that one posts here as "Slash" otherwise known to me as Wingnut. He needs a 5'10 to fit his bicycle trolly in which the board will cross the Nullabor. Hence the square nose. Its really a 6'6...

 

I just missed your prior post before doing mine...and the concept you suggest is ticking over. One could have detachable volume, swap the same volume section onto a different outline.

The idea of not having to make a whole board for every potential trial run of a different combination is pretty enticing.

With say, your hydro foil ply whatsits, have you found that the different rail types in your illustration make as much difference in a rail thats only plywood-thick?

I.e how much hold or release difference might be achieved in the 9mm roll space?

JD [/quote]

 Theres so much in your post to comment...

The 5'10' thats really a 6'6", Im a fan of No Point boards..1/ the points dangerous and 2/ the front 6 inches has no function except for aesthetics.

 The "Arch Bar" concept or a Multi Component board... its got to be the next step in refinement. Instead of ploughing away at foam blocks to sculpt the perfect sliver within... it would be easier to build up a board from specialised components. Decks and hulls have different performance needs, just make each piece from the best products and put them together. 

And  your comment ..."Preformed composite sheets milled to any custom dims, no glassing required, heat-set to a custom rocker, with molded float sections ready to add.".....  Not just for experimental boards but for standard consumer boards, just use what other industries are doing. Its the next step to catch up to where modern manufacturing is.

 With the ply foils Ive made I didnt find a great deal of difference in changing rail profiles, some diff.... but not a lot.  I just completely abandoned rails and their hold/release like a redheaded stepson on a highway and once theyre not in the equation ,its one less thing to obsess over.  Ultra slim rails already exist and work on kiteboards/ wakeboards/ skim boards/ paipos....

In 1975, if you brought out a 2010 pro board and gave it to the shapers back then, theyd scoff and say it cant work or even be ridden.  Current boards are heading down to sub 1 inch anyway.  Componentry and specialisation will happen, it makes manufacturing sense.

I have been working on a hws "step-deck" board, inspired by LovinLife's red and white step-deck posted here in another thread.

Smart stuff. Volume is good for paddling out, paddling for waves but it’s arty and shite to whittle a rail out of a bulky plug. Thing is, I like art, and foil… but I’m a fan of technology properly applied too.

Oh and its good for riding over flats…

Its actually very easy to foil the stepped down rail.  Draw a pencil line about 2 1/2 inches in around the board, then draw another pencil line around the rail at the thickness you want the rail to be approx 1/2 - 1 inch, take a belt sander with 40 grit paper and eat some foam, finish off with a block and sandpaper.  It's faster than making rail bands if you have a steady hand.  My next progect is a short board 6'4", 19 1/4 wide, 2 1/2 thick flat deck with a stepped rail thats 1/2" thick.  quad with a longboard box so i can ride it as a single.  If their is interest in how I make the stepped rail Ill post a how to thread with pics when I start it. 

I’ve been doing this, but my rails are not that skinny.  The two latest boards I’ve made with 3" wide bands I cut from a 2’x8’x3" sheets of xps (Bubble concerns aside…) and when I cut the pieces that make up the majority of the rail - through the middle, and thus in the area of my deck “belly” - I cut them @ 2" “thick”, and then I have much less foam to remove.

[quote="$1"]

  My next project is a short board 6'4", 19 1/4 wide, 2 1/2 thick flat deck with a stepped rail thats 1/2" thick.  quad with a longboard box so i can ride it as a single.  If their is interest in how I make the stepped rail Ill post a how to thread with pics when I start it. 

[/quote]

Yes please.

 I think 1/2" rails are a better thickness than mine. I think Ive gone too far with only 9mm.

 Next time I'll start with a 20mm sheet of XPS and build up from there..

Lovin it gentleman

 

was thinking about using plywood as the base and gluing XPS (hydrophobic) to the deck, and then glassing the foam to the plywood but keeping the bottom oil slick. the rails would be thin as the ply but foam for buoyancy in hte middle.

 

would love to keep it all wood and simple to build., but can't figure out how to make bouancy without making it retarded stiff. it always ends up being a box thats stiff nose to tail.

 

compsand, HWS, Allen Gibbons style?

any thoughts?

UPsurfboards,

 I read on Seabreeze forums that a kiteboard guy was vaccing XPS between 2 pieces of ply with resin. No glass.

 Dunno whether it was flat deck or domed? (pic)

  99.9%  external wood surfaces and he did a few coats Cabots urathene exterior varnish.

 No glass, minimal resin. Ultra Light, quick build, beautiful to look at and bomb-proof, or so he said.

 But thats crazy talk to think of making a surfboard without any glass at all !!

Excellent!

 

I googled it and got some really inspiring links. apparently not the first one to think of this plan.

 

I wonder if you can use most any kind of glue instead of Epoxy?   the only issue is that the ply might just pull away from the foam when flexed.

sorry for the threadjack gentlemen. this skinny rail idea has a ton of merit, can't wait to see what you guys come up with.

 

domed deck  ^ ^  - why not just glass only the rails?

 

also, i'm currently on with this: