I'm not a pro. There is a certain freedom in that, which I am currently appreciating. I can do stuff a pro can't. For example, I can take as long as I want. I can design my boards on graph paper with a pencil. I can change the design to anything I want at any point as I go along. I can set a board aside for a few months, and come back to it later. I can build weird shaped boards if I want to play around or try something different. I can roll the dice and experiment with unproven methods. I can glass it myself. Even build the fins myself, if I want.
I respect the professionals. Especially the ones who come here to swaylocks, and help guys like me along, who are willing to share information and answer questions openly. Also guys like Kensurf or John Mellor or Bud who are not professional per se, but whose work is professional level, who have years of experience, who likewise share and teach and mentor for nothing more than an occasion 'thanks brah' or 'you da man', and sometimes also along with it get a boatload of sh!t just because someone out here is having a bad hair day and needs to vent.
I like the pictures in the buyers guide. At some point in building boards, you start to like looking at pictures of surfboards as much as pictures of surfing. But I think the BS level on swaylocks is way less than anything in print at the magazine rack. I don't always "call BS" on everything I think is BS here, because we all gotta get along, and for the most part, I think we do pretty doggone good. The magazines are good throne room reading material, but this place is therapy for me.
I have been shaping for a few years now(2002) and always put the real number on the bottom of the board. I believe it is at 168 as of today. But had a other shaper tell me one time that i should not do this because then people will know how many you have done. He said i should use a code so i know but no one else knows. Well i thought it was funny cause i am a hobbiest and don't care if people know. I think it is cool to put the real number on it, or else why bother. I took it as a compliment that he thought i did it for money, and told him i do it for fun only.
So yes they inflate their numbers
few years ago I opened a thread in the gral discussion, about similar things, because I was tired of that bullshit here in Swaylocks, and everywhere.
Might be that you still was not a member, I cannot remember.
Refered that I was tired of people here rapping about how many boards they made, blah blah blah, that they never worked in their life because all was only fun...BS!!! alert is what I say.
I remember Kokua talking about burn out if you made (a board builder) board after board at around 500 per year!! so imagine thousands...no matter if only shapes.
Then also check this thread :
that have a relation about the circumstances talking here.
BS factor when Clark foam closed and all in USA said that he had 80% of world market, etc...BS
Is like what Farrelly or Huie said about the Cocoon thing.
Exactly of how many boards Firewire and othe factories make...BS
Where s those boards? like well you say about the newbie shapers..
-I really know how many hours you need to build (a board builder) a complete board included but not always: custom shape; make the fins and glass ons on the board, full color, fabric inlays, resin panels, pinlines, resin pinlines, taping everywhere several times, sanding, then sanding by hand between intrincated places, checking that all is correct; reinforcing nose and tails; gloss coats polishing, etc
AND to do it RIGHT because you can do all those steps but not the best way...
not in ONE board but in many, in hundreds...so stop the BS
I do not even count the time spent checking the emails, dealing with customs offices, paying, etc
I reaaallly tired of this BS
now tired than ever due to the fucking machine that CONVERT a smart ass in the best shaper or whatever he wants to be.
That thing that ACE say about that guy is incredible..I want to hear more about it.
Howzit reverb, I like what you said and it is very true and the thing is some people are good shapers from the gitgo and then you have the guy who has shaped a couple of thousand blanks and still don't have it down. Not every body can shape a good shape no matter how many they do it. I learned the basics in the late 60's but probably hae not done more than 100 but that is because I hate the foam dust getting in my eyes, ears and anywhere's it can. For me it's the glassing I am into and just love to do it. Aloha,Kokua
I started my new factory last December and I have already done 4991 hand shaped boards.......and glassed them too!
BS is alive and wel,l thats for sure!
Yorky you don't need no machine.
Close to 5,000 boards your first new shop year = $500,000 after overhead and taxes.
Who said there's no money in making surfboards?
You are a machine!
I have done close to 100 in two weeks with a machine and I can barely keep up.
I would love to have your youth!
...hello Kokua, thanks
Hello Surfding, what s your opinion about more and more production and the IRS tax or like that.
Seems that in the end the state is the only who wins, or I am in a mistake here?
Reverb I won a bid away from an importer.
100 board order all made in California.
The Machine has made a lot of Pseudo Shapers.
It has been abused exploited the world over.
However in my case I run the machine myself so I can do the quality control of each shape.
The Art Graphics 3/4 Rice Paper Lam all done in house.
Glassing with crew of legal USA residences.
My wife did all the art work and printing including hand packing each board for shipment.
Complete financial disclosure no grey books all checks and cash are accounted for with Quick-books.
I could have gone overseas to make this production.
Having given you my formula now I can properly answer your original question:
"Hello Surfding, what s your opinion about more and more production and the IRS tax or like that.
Seems that in the end the state is the only who wins, or I am in a mistake here?"
Not really after this production 6% is the most you can extract from this.
Remember in house CNC, Printing, Shaping, Glassing. (nothing is sent out) (capital investments made) in our case.
40% Profit Margin and no effort if I went overseas to produce these boards. (no capital investment)
For a large board builder they would not be able to afford to take this job in the state we live in.
My company is small and run very tight. (my overhead is kept low)
I don't think it's a problem with IRS or the man.
We have been through an IRS Audit.
If your books are done well your covered.
You actually get ahead faster with good accounting.
It's more about efficiency.
40% profit with no physical effort?
6% profit labor intensive?
I took this job for the challenge not the money. (great experience)
Here is the comment received from the customer after the first 25 were delivered. (25 boards first week until we ram up production)
"The surfboards turned out phenomenal! Thank you again for this great
partnership! Keep me posted on all
I don't believe it's the State who wins here. It's our system of building boards.
Overseas the factory employee is paid by the hour gets medical benefits and a free lunch.
In California the shop worker is paid by unit has no medical insurance and buys his own lunch.
Overseas the people are more united.
In California we want the Big Gulp, Big Truck, Big Pay.
In our case we took 6% if I took our personal labor out of the equation I actually lost money from a true PROFIT sense.
OK we keep some people busy and shared the spoils.
If someone made them overseas they would have made 40% profit after taxes with no people to manage or stressing.
The difference between people with money and people without money is attitude towards it.
To hand shape all day every day year after year?
I'm sorry but that does not impress me any more than a gardner cutting the grass of an 18 hole golf course with a small push mower.
When guys make big claims?
Water off a ducks back!
Let them claim!
You have a reality very different than most here.
Kokua has some good insight as well as Reverb and some others.
Yorky is and has, the passion and if I was bailing from the bankrupt USA, I'd go apply at his place first!
I should think that it would be smarter to say you've done a really super good board by shaping LESS rather than more.
So in that case, the next time..................if ever, I spend $200 to stick a shortboard into a little local 'buyer's guide' I'll say I've shaped "a few boards"................ oh, you what a number? Ah, this one is #99. In fact, they're ALL 99 from here on out.
At the end of the day, a good board is a good board is a good board....... the proof is in the riding it......don't forget, one man's magic, is another man's poison. So goes the "magic board" myth.
From my personal experience, I've never seen any clear evidence that extensive advertising in Board Buyer's Guides even work for me. All my customers never refer to a "BBG"........ it's always word of mouth from talking with or trying someone's board I made them. I just got an order like that from guy that was out at Topanga with Matt or Andrew Wesson and he asked if he could try the board.................. next thing I know, I get an email with an order. That's how I get my biz. If you have a good buzz going around about what you make, that kinda says it all.
I like that method a helluva lot more than spending $$$ in a rag.
If I want to attract more business, I'd rather do what I'm doing right now: which is to build a 'library' of my favorite models that interested prospects can check out for a couple weeks to see if they like the ride.
Facebook is free.
You Tube is free.
I never did advertise much, but I think I'm really done with any paid advertising forever............
Aloha DS,On Kauai it's word of mouth that can make or break a shaper or glasser since it is a small surfing population compared to Oahu or the mainland. I as lucky to have had a good rep and that meant lots of business. There was a guy who used to tell people what a great glasser he was but his boards were just barely so so.Couldn't airbrush and there were so many air bubbles in his rails the boards had extra floatation. I remember seeing a couple of his boards and the shaper was so bummed and he couldn't even get the fins in the FCS plugs and he refused to do glossing,wonder why.I think he ended up going into the repair business for a couple of years then went out of business.Aloha,Kokua