Hey guys and girls, I've been doing experiments with N-Fusion surfacing veils.
Different lay up schedules and different results. Testing for impact strength, stiffness, cosmetics, and weight.
N-Fusion is a brilliant white non woven cloth, It is lighter than fiberglass, but with different properties.
- Soaks epoxy like a sponge, so must be done under pressure.
- When between cloth and foam, it increases the bond. This is because it has micro fibers that mechanically join the two surfaces.
- When between two layers of glass, it spreads the compression and tension planes, increasing stiffness. Think less damage from blunt inpact.
- It does much less than the equal weight of fiberglass to resist puncture. It won't do as much as another layer of fiberglass.
- It is designed to be a surfacing veil.
I just did a mock -up last night. I took a scrap of foam. Laminated it like normal. Pulled off the extra epoxy like normal. Layed a 2 oz swatch of N-Fusion on the wet laminate. I added no extra epoxy to saturate the N-Fusion cloth. Covered it with 20" wide shrink wrap, purchased from Home Depot. Pre vacuum, the N-fusion was almost dry. I put in in a Vacuum bag, and waited till cured.
The surface was perfect! Perfectly saturated with the surplus epoxy that would have been normally just dead weight. No weave showing, just the slight texture embossed in the N-Fusion.
It can be purchased directly from Cerex in larger quantities. It comes in many weights. It also can be purchased in smaller amounts from Graphite Masters.
If you contact Cerex on their website, you can request samples. You have a choice of a bunch of different weights, or one larger sample in a specified weight.
Now for the disclaimers.... According to an industry insider, several large major board makers, Lost, Rusty etc. are already using the .7 oz between the foam and glass for better adhesion and whiteness.
I asked Mike Daniel if he was cool with posting about the stuff and he gave his encouragement, so I'm not stepping on any toes. I don't know if Coil is one of the users of this stuff, but some of their work appears to be in this direction.
There are users here on Swaylocks who have early knowledge of this.
There is also a user here from Graphite Masters who was helpful.
I ask them to jump in with their findings.
This was just sort of a quickie posting, so if you want more info, ask away....
Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught. - Winston Churchill
Hey Greg,
I've done tests with it under, over and between the layers of cloth. Cerex says it is designed to go over. Graphite Masters said it gives better bonding to foam if it goes against the foam. Graphite Masters said dont do it on the top. I liked what happend when I went with the Makers. and did some on top.
And yes, a normal wet out of 4 oz cloth had enough waste epoxy to soak into the N-Fusion and completely saturate it. But only under Vacuum!
According to Graphite Masters, you sand into it, it Fuzzes up. If you just lightly hand sand any wrinkles left behind by the shrink wrap, and then do your final finish coat, you will be golden!.
Another thing, remember I said it soaks up resin? It also soaks up dye! Rit fabric dye, and then dried in the sun. It can be water colored on. Printed on. Really anything. It is Nylon! It is what your shirt is made of.
http://markmillerconstruction.com
ey mark been using cerex for some time
good stuff but only for vacum work
nylon fused fibre ah now there is a story.
cheers huie
cheers huie
now retired
Hey Huie,
Now you've got me confused again! just when I thought I was getting somewhere! Please explain Nylon Fused Fiber.http://markmillerconstruction.com
Its a thermally fused surfacing veil that come in different orientations and weights. The information that Graphite Master's has and uses are based on my research, and development. The .70 osy works best for hand-lay ups because it conforms to the rails, and doesn't drink up resin like the heavier weights. If you want to save yourselves a lot of headaches you'll just call Justin at Graphite Master's to get the right stuff.
Hi GRat,
I've been picking the brain of a different Graphite Master's rep. already. He posts on Sway's sometimes, and I'm hoping he will jump in. He mentioned that you and about five other board makers were into early testing. Did you use it only against the foam, between the layers of cloth, or on the surface. What were your results, and do you still use it?
So is this the thermally fused nylon that Huie was talking about, or is there something different? After I get my brain around this stuff, I'll be looking into VECTORPLY PERFORMANCE COMPOSITE REINFORCEMENTS AT VECTORPLY.COM
I've done my tests with the 2.0 and 2.4 weight. I have some 1.3 oz ordered direct from cerex. They had some with the titanium white off cut at a really good price. 30 inches by 250 yards for $100. Just waiting for UPS to drop it on my doorstep.
I'm doing my best to escape the 40 year cocoon. Any of you sharper guys want to give me a hand? d= )
http://markmillerconstruction.com
I'm guessing this stuff is the exactly same thing as Skinz that GM has been showing around.
I could be wrong, but the Graphic art Skinz are vinyl and cosmetic, Nylon 6,6 is different stuff and stronger. But it can have artwork applied.
Yea, at second look the are surfboard skinz http://surfboardskinz.com/ that are just big stickers. Atomized, details on Skinz please...
http://markmillerconstruction.com
mark, my mistake. Justin confirms it is Skinz. Which is ok. When I get back to my desktop I am going to re-read Ben Thompson's work on the stuff. i have a roll of the 0.7 oz but have been too busy with bamboo to do anything with it.
Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught. - Winston Churchill
Hey Greg..
Seeing that you're busy with bamboo right now... You put it under the bamboo instead of heavy, expensive fiberglass that doesn't stick as well anyway....
Funny no one mentioned that to you earlier... Hummm...
Try both 1 or 2 layers of .7 oz under the boo. to see what works best for your application.. If it works as well or better than the non-woven P.P. veil I've been using for some time, then great....
Who's Ben Thompson??........ Is he one of the....* FIVE *
This stuff seems like a logical progression (at 50gsm)......http://www.cerex.com/PageView.asp?PageType=R&edit_id=197
You know it's all out there for everyone to try,,,,,,,, From the Rancher down to the herd.... It ain't rocket science.. You just have to put in the effort, sweat, and have decent access to all this stuff and it's doable,,,,,Even for us grunts...
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