I've built myself a board that I love in waves under head high. Best board I've ever ridden so long as it not breaking top to bottom. Basically a Dumpster Diver clone supersized for a 205# 43 year old. The only problem with the board is on waves that are overhead and hollow the board will get hung up in the lip and not let me in and will sometimes start to track while I'm paddling into the wave. Problem is particularly when its offshore, hollow and there is a lot of water coming up the face. I'm thinking its a problem caused by the extra foam under my chest and the concave that begins under my chest.
I'm about to embark on building another very similar board but I want this one to get into head high + with ease. Any suggestions to make the next one more user friendly in bigger waves? Eliminate Concave under chest? Less foam under chest??? (Still want it to paddle good though). Softer rails toward the nose? A little bit of forward V???
The board in question is the one in the center on these photos. It's 6'6" and I've hidden a ton of volume in it. 2 and 7/8" thick.
Hey Mako,
I posted almost identically a while back. It's a similar board, but mine is 5'11''. Lots of hidden volume. Goes great most days, but when it's on and fast, then it's the most frustrating experience: like someone is holding on to the tail of my board.
http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/board-hanging-up-waves
I think it's two things. First, rocker. These dumpster diver type boards tend to have "nose" rocker that begins pretty far back, as sort of a slight angle, rather than a curve, before flipping a little in the nose.
Second, I think that too much volume in the nose prevents penetration of the wave. That's the rub of hidden volume. It tends to distribute itself throughout and combined with the rocker it makes for a board that goes great and surfs great a lot of the time. But when it's fast and peaky, then it's no fun.
I've been rethinking where my volume goes. Typical is to maximize it under the chest where the rocker apex is. But I think it was LeeD who talked about how he would increase it where his hips lay. I think I'll experiment with that for my next board and foil out the nose so that it drops more easily.
Good luck,
C
(1) YES !
(2) NO.
The concave is the culpret.
Thank you for the reply. Much respect.
flat to a slight sprial vee off tail for user friendliness in bigger stuff.
flatten the entry rocker with an accentuated nose flip for improved paddling
for late drops and curvy faces you'll need allot of tail rocker and a continuous curved outline
its all about rail and rocker release in the super hollow stuff
dome it to keep the thickness where you need it.
interestingcomments about the concave argument as probably the fastest paddling boards today are these 11' Chris Christiansen hyper guns that they are using at Jaws, Mavs and other paddle in spots. I think he may have some concave in those thngs but they are god awfully narrow too.
When I used to ride my twin nose alexander gemini all the time with over 1" of concave in the nose between the twin tips and a reverse outline (narrow tail/wide nose) I found you can't just paddle those things into a wave like you could with a potato chip. So take off's always involved spinning around at the last minute jamming the tail into the wave face and launching to your feet immediately. Lots of air drops but those boards always stuck the landing and always made it around the hook no matter how far behind you took off.
I've noticed this same problem with allot of "funboards", full nosed boards and especially lightweight EPS Epoxy boards which carry no momentum during take off.
"ain't no big ting brudda"
Hi Mako,
Why don't you try to soften up the rails in the nose rocker, almost belly-like. This should help the nose sit lower in the water when you are paddling into the wave and help get you over the ledge easier. Start your concave further back and keep it subtle. Concave gives you lift and with a wider board, you've got plenty of lift without deep concaves. I've just started doing this with a soft-railed flat entry to a subtle single to an inset double/vee through the fins and out the tail. It has worked great for me in the last few Jersey swells with the stiff offshores and ledging barrels. Good stuff yesterday, by the way.
-Jamie
Bill's right. Belly under the chest would make more sense.
That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.
What is the amount of fin toe? the usual 1/4" or more?
I agree with Bill. The added surface area of the concave bottom makes the board fun in small gutless waves but you don't need as much " lift" in faster waves with more juice. I would suggest adding a slight belly or hull through the front of the board and and then a bit of vee through the tail. Your board looks sweet though, as a bonus you will have another board very similar to the first which is more suited to hollow more powerful waves. It will be easy to transition between the two depending on conditions. In my opinion when you try to design something which is good at everything compromises are made one way or the other. Because of this most all rounders are fun most of the time but tend to fall in the middle of the demand curve. Designs which are focused tend to perform best in the conditions for which they are designed. How many pros go on tour with only 1 board? As a final idea glass the next one heavier than the last. 6-6-6 layup. Full laps top and bottom. Heavier is better when it's offshore and hollow.
I've been riding a fairly close approximation of a Tomo Vanguard. It's very fast of the top and never gets hung up.
I think the straight rails and the no toe fins make these things plane early and offer no fall-line resistance. The wide tail is very stable in take off. My take off kook rate has dropped from 20 % to pretty much 0% in all kinds of waves except maybe for grovel conditions.
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