Would an extra bit of kick in the tail rocker help it from getting hung up in the lip while doing turns- although obviously wouldnt help with catching waves in offshore conditions.
Also consider holding a rounder shape in your rail well toward the tail. This will give you extra hold when it gets steep. Round rails hold while hard sharp edges shear water. With a round rail all the way past the trailing edge of your lead fins the board will hold the wall and not want to shear off of the face of a walling wave .
I did a few boards with concave running 2/3 the length of the bottom. I found out real quickly that they generate lots of lift in weak conditions but required a couple more strokes to get in. They greatly reduced my margin for error in fast breaking wave conditions.
I don't think your wide tail gets hung up or held on to at all. I think what you are experincing is 1: a whole lotta lift and float in the tail which drops the nose of the board straight down in a hollower takeoff. you think you are held back but the reality is the tail is lurching up on plane real fast giving you very little time to get on your feet before your board goes nearly vertical and is hard to stay with. Watch some people or videos of take offs with smaller pipe boards, you'll notice the thin and narrow tails actually stay a bit submerged in the steepening wall of water. This gives you a bit more time to get to your feet and the angle of attack of the board doesn't fall away matching the steep wall of the wave so closely so you have more time to get to your feet before the plunge.
2: if you try to angle in to a steep takeoff on a real low rocker board to keep from pearling, the concave up front keeps the board from slipping sideways down into the right takeoff line. It tends to stick and track up high instead of release and slip into the right lower line. v or dome in the front part of the board or throughout really makes a big difference here in barrels. Probably more fun to keep you 6'6" design for low energy days and use a dedicated board for hollow days, or just realize with a low rocker flaoty board you have to paddle real fast at get in really early every time to make the drops easier. It's really tough to spin, paddle a couple of times and handle how fast a flat board accelerates and goes near vert or at a pearling angle on the takeoff. Even more so on smaller hollow waves because the board just wont fit such a tight curve.
Everyone knows I love mccoys! So here is the shameless Geoff McCoy promotion. Mccoys all have wide tails, wide point back and are generally thicker than the so called modern short board. I would argue that Geoff invented the modern short board. Thick wide tails soft rails and the loaded dome on these boards make them some of the best barrel boards you will ever try. My lazor zap is bar none the best hollow day board I own. My boat nose cheyne horan is much the same. Many times when I feel I'm getting hung up in the lip it is because I'm just not in the right spot. I may be too far outside waiting for bombers or not close enough to the peak. I'm not trying to diss you bro, I'm sayin that's me. Simetimes it's more a matter of commitment also. Lately I just say what the heck and scoot a bit farther toward the nose. On offshore days this is often the differance I need to get in sooner. Sure I pearl it once in a while but most of the time I'm on it.
Recipes for a good hollow day bottom contour. Belly in nose through entry rocker becoming a very light vee throught the center of the board maybe 1/16 " to vee out the tail 1/8". Soft rails from front to back of leading fin then becoming hard gradually as the tail is reached. Do not sacrifice volume. Paddle power catches waves. Heavy glass layups help maintain momentum. 3 stage rocker. These are all generalitys but good places to start.
I agree that McCoy has the recipe perfected for getting a short wide low rockered board down a steep face, dome, well tucked rails that release a lot up front
I think a lot of it has to do with the change in the waves, not so much the board(s) myself...
Not to big, but sucking-doubling waves are generally much faster from the point you could slide in to the point you'll get pitched. Much less time and much more critical.
My disconnect comes from the fact I don't ride much shorter than 8', so the different bottom features mentioned, I've tried most, don't strike me as problematic, as much as getting in at the right time. Granted - I love nothing more than a narrow vee/belly nose with lots of flip... I hated to see my nose as it dug in on steep/late drops when it's hollow, but not to big... Takes a certain approach to work the 8'er on a 4' wave... Ha!
I've got a 8' mini mal/ fun board too. It's a blast on lots of different waves. Bit when it's dumping it's a whole different beast. When I'm in the zone and the planets are aligned just so I get bottom turns on it so sweet I can't believe it's me surfing. Then the speed and controll from the pin tail are a religious experience. The thing I miss most about it when on my shortys is the trim. Trim is a beautiful thing. Lol. One of the things I love about shaping is the freedom to experiment and own a lot of different boards.
a board thats good for smaller weaker days is not going to be a go-to for overhead barrels no matter what you do to rails, bottom, etc
grab your sleek pintail for when its cranking instead of trying to modify a board made for one set of conditions to match an oppsoite set of conditions. you will just wind up compromising the design. if you want to make a board that will do it all ok then it will do nothing really well.
i was riding my dd-esque today in some overhead pitching wedges (didnt think the waves would be up as much as they were today) and i took it hard on the best wave i caught - needed some more rocker and a longer rail line.........
Would an extra bit of kick in the tail rocker help it from getting hung up in the lip while doing turns- although obviously wouldnt help with catching waves in offshore conditions.
No problems at all doing turns on this board. It is perfect in this regard.
One idea I am considering is doing the next one with a rounded pin tail since this next board will be geared towards bigger days.
Also consider holding a rounder shape in your rail well toward the tail. This will give you extra hold when it gets steep. Round rails hold while hard sharp edges shear water. With a round rail all the way past the trailing edge of your lead fins the board will hold the wall and not want to shear off of the face of a walling wave .
I did a few boards with concave running 2/3 the length of the bottom. I found out real quickly that they generate lots of lift in weak conditions but required a couple more strokes to get in. They greatly reduced my margin for error in fast breaking wave conditions.
I don't think your wide tail gets hung up or held on to at all. I think what you are experincing is 1: a whole lotta lift and float in the tail which drops the nose of the board straight down in a hollower takeoff. you think you are held back but the reality is the tail is lurching up on plane real fast giving you very little time to get on your feet before your board goes nearly vertical and is hard to stay with. Watch some people or videos of take offs with smaller pipe boards, you'll notice the thin and narrow tails actually stay a bit submerged in the steepening wall of water. This gives you a bit more time to get to your feet and the angle of attack of the board doesn't fall away matching the steep wall of the wave so closely so you have more time to get to your feet before the plunge.
2: if you try to angle in to a steep takeoff on a real low rocker board to keep from pearling, the concave up front keeps the board from slipping sideways down into the right takeoff line. It tends to stick and track up high instead of release and slip into the right lower line. v or dome in the front part of the board or throughout really makes a big difference here in barrels. Probably more fun to keep you 6'6" design for low energy days and use a dedicated board for hollow days, or just realize with a low rocker flaoty board you have to paddle real fast at get in really early every time to make the drops easier. It's really tough to spin, paddle a couple of times and handle how fast a flat board accelerates and goes near vert or at a pearling angle on the takeoff. Even more so on smaller hollow waves because the board just wont fit such a tight curve.
Everyone knows I love mccoys! So here is the shameless Geoff McCoy promotion. Mccoys all have wide tails, wide point back and are generally thicker than the so called modern short board. I would argue that Geoff invented the modern short board. Thick wide tails soft rails and the loaded dome on these boards make them some of the best barrel boards you will ever try. My lazor zap is bar none the best hollow day board I own. My boat nose cheyne horan is much the same. Many times when I feel I'm getting hung up in the lip it is because I'm just not in the right spot. I may be too far outside waiting for bombers or not close enough to the peak. I'm not trying to diss you bro, I'm sayin that's me. Simetimes it's more a matter of commitment also. Lately I just say what the heck and scoot a bit farther toward the nose. On offshore days this is often the differance I need to get in sooner. Sure I pearl it once in a while but most of the time I'm on it.
Recipes for a good hollow day bottom contour. Belly in nose through entry rocker becoming a very light vee throught the center of the board maybe 1/16 " to vee out the tail 1/8". Soft rails from front to back of leading fin then becoming hard gradually as the tail is reached. Do not sacrifice volume. Paddle power catches waves. Heavy glass layups help maintain momentum. 3 stage rocker. These are all generalitys but good places to start.
I agree that McCoy has the recipe perfected for getting a short wide low rockered board down a steep face, dome, well tucked rails that release a lot up front
I think a lot of it has to do with the change in the waves, not so much the board(s) myself...
Not to big, but sucking-doubling waves are generally much faster from the point you could slide in to the point you'll get pitched. Much less time and much more critical.
My disconnect comes from the fact I don't ride much shorter than 8', so the different bottom features mentioned, I've tried most, don't strike me as problematic, as much as getting in at the right time. Granted - I love nothing more than a narrow vee/belly nose with lots of flip... I hated to see my nose as it dug in on steep/late drops when it's hollow, but not to big... Takes a certain approach to work the 8'er on a 4' wave... Ha!
TaylorO
I've got a 8' mini mal/ fun board too. It's a blast on lots of different waves. Bit when it's dumping it's a whole different beast. When I'm in the zone and the planets are aligned just so I get bottom turns on it so sweet I can't believe it's me surfing. Then the speed and controll from the pin tail are a religious experience. The thing I miss most about it when on my shortys is the trim. Trim is a beautiful thing. Lol. One of the things I love about shaping is the freedom to experiment and own a lot of different boards.
a board thats good for smaller weaker days is not going to be a go-to for overhead barrels no matter what you do to rails, bottom, etc
grab your sleek pintail for when its cranking instead of trying to modify a board made for one set of conditions to match an oppsoite set of conditions. you will just wind up compromising the design. if you want to make a board that will do it all ok then it will do nothing really well.
i was riding my dd-esque today in some overhead pitching wedges (didnt think the waves would be up as much as they were today) and i took it hard on the best wave i caught - needed some more rocker and a longer rail line.........
https://instagram.com/grasshoppersurfboards/
Pages