Bob Mctavish on Displacement Hulls

What do you think about Displacement Hulls?

On a hull when you are on your knees, it’s okay to grab the rail and pull the sucker around. But when you are standing up and your center of gravity is higher, it’s harder to control a hull. If you watch Jimmy Gamboa in One California Day on a hull, the poor guy is struggling to make the waves and can barely keep up with the lip. This is because it is underpowered and gutless. I’ll put a slight rounded curve on some boards, but I will never use a hull design – they never work for a stand up surfer. The hull shape is a very slow shape – it isn’t crisp and they don’t plane very high. I’ve never really embraced the whole hull concept. I fooled around with it and never really got with it. My friends made straight copies of it – Ted Spencer, Russell Hughes, Chris Brock, Paul Witzig – they all just copied George’s hull and they put up with its problems.

Hulls are difficult to ride, but they do give you an occasional flash of brilliance because of their neutrality. At a certain point, after going through a series of arcs, you can lay it on that neutral rail and it won’t suck you under. Today’s modern surfboard rails and bottoms are so far advanced from the Greenough hull that it is just a retro dream. The hull worked when the surf was uncrowded and you could lock or thread a line down a long point break, by the sixth or eighth turn you could wind up bags of speed with this beautiful neutral rail. At that point you could put it into an extreme position upside down, briefly – that’s when they shine. After 1969, you needed a flat bottom and a pivotal back foot so you could maneuver around people and break your power line. By mid ‘69 I wanted nothing to do with hulls. I still don’t like them. Dreamy, but impractical.

Interesting read over on liquid salt mag. 

http://www.liquidsaltmag.com/2013/12/bob-mctavish-2/

some fair points in there…particularly re: paddle power and catching waves and they certainly aren’t crisp.

oddly, at my winter spot, I feel like my hull is the board that most effectively gets me past sections that I would otherwise have difficulty making.

they are certainly a major liability on the backside, but for a lined up wave nothing beats the feelin.

 

It’s a thin line between love and hate… And even thinner is the line between a properly shaped hull and one that is a dog… Less chance of radical mistakes with a flat bottom to soft V.

 

Line is thin on any Board design that is shaped by a skilled hand and a not so skilled hand.  They all work but what makes a board really shine is the mind and hands of someone that understands the concept and knows how to find the best lines and curves  in the blank.

Great read! Mahalo.

My 2cents. Having ridden the old hulls (GL) and Bing foils in the day, all this Oldphrat knows, they can be hell, not many knew their weapon well.

Still can pick out the better hull rippers (us’ ta be I knew em). 

 

Aloha.

Would love to add to this but this site is all Buss Up as they say here :wink:

 

Made boards thru this era and saw it all happen . 

 

Would like to post pictures without it being rejected as spam by your filter .

When I was in HI in Fall 1969, there was a guy named Paul Steele shaping hulls who had been taught very detailed formula including fin placement and fin shape by McTavish who had been through there the year before. And in fact I saw McT in the water on Maui that previous summer and he and his two buddies were absolutely the most obnoxious assholes I have ever encountered surfing. Ever. We 4 were the only people out in 2-3 foot (California size) wind chop and I guess just for fun the sat on me, hogged waves, made nasty comments, etc until they finally drove me to the beach in disgust. Stupid really. Steele made some really nice hulls and some real dogs. But still I think it a big disingenuous for McTavish to say he “never really embraced the whole hull concept” as he really was going around preaching them as the future of surfing and coaching other shapers in how to make them. Steele and company got it from him like some get religion.

To each his own.  Ride what you like and like what you ride.  On a 3-5 foot California point or lined up reef, there is no other design I would prefer.  But that’s me.  Punch up “hulls” on Youtube and Vimeo and you can watch vids for an hour and none of those people are having problems making waves.  Maybe that’s because they aren’t riding hulls built in 1969…

Hey Guys,

DrStrange, Yeap! Merciless wave hog. My zone SB late 67 managed however to capitalize on giving some waves to keep it mellow, crap to be frank ‘ was in awh, cuz was riding a 9’-10 Harbor Sol and was being challenged by the waves, best day ever on a longboard before the s*^t hit the fan! Hey ‘ was certainly on the cutting edge (for a while). Maybe at the time of your Maui experience he was riding a Big Mac! Ha…

One more thing ( and it’s humor ) in your comment “get religion” Mr. McTavish is so and is not only changed but from what I observe Not a bad guy, and as for me, owe a lot to the man, hell I had more trouble with PT!

LeeV

Hulls are very close to me (cuz in the day) the development was way too much fun. And without the few, the concept would be lost. Hey I enjoyed just about every change Vee bottoms, Twins (more fun) to crazy quads. For more info on how far hulls have come (if you don’t know already), check out http://www.liddlesurfboards.com/

Enough from my big yapper

Aloha.

I wish you would.  You know we would give you more love than those guys over there who have no respect.  Post up!  If you have an image url (like from photobucket) its easy, just click the picture icon above…

what year did they start improving ,

 

  and

 

  did many here ride short hulls , ‘first time around’ ?

 

I ask , because  ’ lost in the ether’ [and , also ,  " The Surfers Journal "  mags …do you HAVE those ‘hull’ / greenough  issues , zac ? …maybe its in those ones you got??]  ,  have shown very short and wide ted spencer 1969 outlines , in the 5’11 x 22"  and 6’x 21 1/2"  range.

 

Also ,  when [around what year ? ]   did the " s-decks"  disappear from them ?

 

the only one I ever rode was a 1969 , 6’11 x 20  rob conneeley ‘george greenough design’ , with VERY knifey rails , and an s-deck .  Persevered with it twenty times , but just didn’t  like it at all…as mac said , difficult to ride .

 

…So it would be nice to ride a shorter , more modern , ? better rockered?  version , nowadays … and , in some nice waves …

 

my brother has an old 8’ " tracker’ single fin , with a hull bottom [ with no ‘s-deck’ , thankfully !] , that he swears by , and I have posted photos of , previously. He rides it in fairly good reef breaks , as well as north coast [nsw] beachies , and LOVES it …

“If you watch Jimmy Gamboa in One California Day on a hull, the poor guy is struggling to make the waves and can barely keep up with the lip.”

I really like this film and the Gamboa sequence in particular. The comment from McTavish is not how I remembered the hull sequence in the film. So I just watched it again to see if I am missing something. It looks to me as if Gamboa’s speed is matched with the wave speed and he is making critical sections and staying in the pocket. On a few waves, he actually drags his hand to stay in the curl. On one wave he even shifts all his weight to his back foot to slow down. So hulls may or may not work, and McTavish is entitled to his opinion, but the film sequence doesn’t seem to support the “hulls don’t work” argument.

fins

The S deck did not disappear from all hulls. My Liddle Pointbreaker has a pronounced S deck. So have the other Liddles I have ridden. However, the Anderson Bojorquez  does not have an S deck. There may be other hulls w/o S decks as well.

here we go again?      east coast aus from around early 68 totaly finished with by 69 the spencer white kites were evolving in a different direction and by late 69 board lengths were going up       u s hi are 20 hrs + behind and cant catch up haa’’

**  for once i can agree with bob?   if only we new then what we now know **

it appears to me liddle took our original dble ender and stampd his own bits to it and it works for them still today’’    so good on him

but guys its another ausie design live with it  ** i built them i surfed them      but i moved on**

cheers huie

To anyone under the age of thirty,

it’s all new to them.

Anybody over that age,

its recycling.

What is old,

is new again.

Single fins.

Mini-simms.

Retro fishes.

Quads.

Before you know it, Twins will be back.

Oh, wait a minute,

that’s already happening.

I made this Hull-ish board for my friend.

Awaiting his review.

Haha Barry I’m in the new again bracket never ridden one but would like to try someday differnt can be fun. Quite like this little vid http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xsJ67SxeU-g

 

huie, "it appears to me liddle took our".  For the record  Nat showed up with this and started something new. But then again that 68 visit may have brought the "Hull" right back to where Bob Simmons tested his ideas! Oh and right on Barry "long live Jethro Hull"

Aloha.

 

For those who want to make up their own mind, here is the clip of jimmy gamboa from one california day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij3sBeBIQQI#t=285

I think of the traditional Liddle hulls (in particular) as being a very specific design that are aimed squarely at riding frontside at a specific wave.  It’s a specialty design in the truest sense and was never intended to be surfed in a wide variety of conditions.  Just in the video in question above you can see Gamboa leaving his place with 2 boards under arm, the other being a singlefin longboard.  That means that he wasn’t even completely sure he was going to ride the hull that day.  

 There are other people doing very different versions of these hulls that are a little more versatile across a somewhat wider range of conditions.   But in any case, most people who own hulls also own other types of boards for the other conditions they run into.  That includes many (probably most) of the shapers who build them.  

 

It’s ironic McTavish is talking about a design which he doesn’t think works well when he’s responsible for selling expensive boards to legions of sea change flotsam that have bugger all skill but with a stronge sense of entitlement who can easily be identified by the big M logo on their longboards.