Deck and hull skins done. Time to join them together with a few tabs around the perimeter.
Remember this is the inside of the mat that you see now.
When it comes to joining material the best tension is none.
Close to 100 handmade mats now and it's clear that building the best mats is more than just sticking things together, it's about the materials, the glues, planning, preparation, even how you approach the build.
Know your design, your tools, your self and move forward with purpose. Have confidence in yourself.
Here's the 105 I-beams or posts that I use to connect the deck to the hull, they form a very light and flexible system inside the surf mat.
With 105 different points to design with I can plot and create all the bottom contours - Single into double concaves, concave into Vee, even asymmetrical, whatever. It's created innovation into surfmat design becuase I can customise surf mats into a thousand different designs. Just takes a bit more brain power to work out all the number so the curves and concaves are smooth.
When it's at low inflation it's flexible but when you grip the corners it fills out to create the contours.
Very cool looking. I agree about materials/glue/prep. I started messing with 200D but quickly went to 70D. Now that I think about it, I really liked the 200D, maybe I'll go give that another try.
Glad you dropped in John, We've got 2 weeks of school holidays here so I'm hanging with my sons and then I'll start your mat. Gives me 2 weeks to do some minor R & D too. I'll make yours and then stop hogging this thread.
( Second pic is from the inside of the inflated mat. You can see the strips are perfectly straight, perfectly aligned.)
Then pop in an inflation valve.
Then reinforce the perimeter with a vinyl edge strip. The strip completely changes the rail shape, instead of an inflated curve it becomes a peaked rail that allows the water to shear of with absolutely minimal drag.
Please guys, drop in with a comment or two so I know if you like or not or what you want to see, thanks.
One thing I dont get though is how you glue the top layer on?...i.e what's the sequence? do you work from one end to the other in a "reverse peel" fashion?
Both techniques work, if you attach the deck and hull skins back to back, connect the strips to one side and then do the "reverse peel" to slowly turn the mat right side in and then attach each row of strips as you go.
On the other hand if you do the strips or I-beams from the inside to the outside as Monkstar said and then seal the perimeter.
There's another way with both sides being one piece and wrapping it around and sealing the ends. I'll do it that way next for Johns mat.
Thanks for the props guys, I've never seen anyone else do surf mat design like this but I hope the pro makers try my designs because they do work.
Especially the tapered/ rounded outline or plan shape. John Mellors surf mat is next so I'll do a completely clear model for him. Here's a pic that shows why all performance surf mats should be pulled in at the tail.
I'll do John Mellors mat now, it's a much simpler design, easy to build and bulletproof becuase there's less glueing.
Pic 1/. I have my designs on pieces of ply so I lay the vinyl over the design and mark with a pen where everything goes like the connecting strips and the apex of the rails and the overall dimensions. I've used tape so you can see where the positions are.
Pic 2/. Then cut out the single piece that going to be the top, bottom and rails. And the connecting strips. There's 45 of them for this mat.
Pic 3/. And here's all the pieces ready to glue.
Pic 4/. At the end when you fold the sides over to create the top, the strips align with the positions on the bottom. Then you seal the ends and it's done. I'm timing how long it takes to build this one. This is 36 minutes.
Hi Josh, here's the stuff I use , it's from the US so should be easy to get for you. You must use the primer as well, it's clheap and you can get the primer from any hardware store.
The internal structure is what gives the mat it's inflated shape, it could be beams / strips / wires but whatever you use it needs to be accurately done.
This mat has only 45 internal strips connecting the deck and hull.
They start as 1 inch wide flat strips, then define the height (4 inches) and make a folded tab at both ends to glue to the skins. To create the folded tabs, I use a warm iron. The vinyl is a thermoplastic so fold it, heat and hold and when it cools the fold is sharp and permanent.
Glue the tabs to both skins as accurately as you can and when you're done it's almost finished.
This is by far the most comprehensive demonstration on mat construction ever... anywhere. I don't think it's a topic that has even been considered for mass consumption.
Greg, I think I've gone way past what's considered 'appropriate' on a Surfmat.
But I could do almost anything requested. For the leash I'd probably add something to the outside rather than punch a hole in it somewhere.
I've done the 2nd sealing technique on the front and the 3rd at the back. The only difference with sealing the ends is that the middle will pull in and create a concave on the sides.
Not a traditional mat, but John seemed fascinated by the other clear mat so he can have his own one now.
All the construction marking were on the outside so I'll clean it up, test that it's airtight over a few days and then take it down for a ceremonial baptism at my local beach and then post it off.
John, your surfmat is guaranteed airtight and ready to go.
I gave it a quick baptism in the shore here in Australia, then asked my teenage son to gently roll and wrap it and then he says he didn't wipe it dry so it will arrive with Australian sea salt as a garnish !
Should've put a leash loop on it because it kinda blends in with the wave foam. Hope you don't lose it !
Thanks so much for sharing your exploration into the build side of surf mats. I've been mating for a little over 5yrs, and wasn't exactly sure what was going on inside my new favorite surfcraft.
SMAD, That's great that you've enjoyed the thread. I whip up a new mat design now and then so if you've got an idea or want more mat build info, just ask.
I had a go at building one of these. It ended up a bit too wide, I reckon. It's heat-sealable nylon, 200 denier on the deck and 70 denier underneath. I got a valve from a $2 beach ball and found that the glue on the fabric would bond to the pvc very well. Not yet tested, but I'll probably add some polyurethane deck grip.
Leon
Did you have any problem with folds or creases while you were ironing it? Have you laid down on it yet? If it can hold your weight on land, it'll work in the water.
It went together pretty easily, only one spot where I had to deal with a tiny crease. I tacked the perimeter together to try and minimise that problem before going around and sealing it all up. I still ended up with an area on one of the corners where I ended up with a bit too much fabric. The glue is fairly thick, so you can get away with a tiny crease without leaks. It holds my weight without any bad noises.
Also, the beach ball valve is terrible. It is way too small. I haven't even bothered inflating by mouth, it would take forever. I'll need to find something bigger to allow me to realistically deflate the mat.
Based on current inflation levels you won't need to inflate it very much. But a fatter valve helps. If you Google around for valve companies they have sent me a dozen free valves in several sizes. And 36 free valves goes a long way !
The heat sealable nylon is great if you hit the right temp so you've done a great job .
I always leave my mats partially inflated because it's the long time they spend deflated that induces creases and splits in the fabric....theyre meant to hold a rounded shape.
( interestingly the name NYLON is a composite of the inventors location of New York and LONdon )
Well, I've briefly tested the mat. It survived a few floggings without major failure, although the ends of a couple of the ribs came partially unstuck. I think I'll combine fixing these with opening the mat up to reduce it's overall size and add a better valve. Coming from a thin plywood paipo as my main board, my conclusions are that the mat is a real workout to paddle through waves, quite fast and I have no idea how to control it. I only got a few waves, so more testing is needed.
I noticed a slight tendency for the nose to roll downward, which created drag and felt sketchy, Is this underinflation or a design flaw?
Surffoils, hey man, cowboy here. (Longtime lurker/reader just starting to post) I'm building a mat, actually my second. The first one was cordura that turned out to not really be waterproof. Doh!!
I got some great light heat sealable nylon from Rocky Woods and it's air and water tight but I can't find MEK in any small quantities to clean it before I glue it up. Can I use Acetone to clean this up instead?
I'll post up some pics when I get this thing together. And to any of y'all thinking of trying this, Do it, it doesn't take too long and it's not too tough as long as you're patient. But isn't that the main lesson of board building?
like
1
The Cowboy
Standing up, laying down, putting on fins, whatever it takes to get a wave.
If it's heat sealable you don't need any glue. You can use an iron or a heat gun and a roller. I got some 200D and 40D from rocky woods and was pleased with the fabric.
Hey Cowboy ! You’re the guy from the Hydrofoil SUP forum yes ??
You’ll notice the admin here is a lot less restrictive than over there.
The easiest prep fluid is to use the same as plumbers use for PVC pipes.
It’s about $5 for 500 ml. Clear, highly toxic.
Please post pics, I’m up for a mat chat.
For people not familiar with mats, the approved history is that George Greenough is the high priest of all things that Mat-ter because he did some great experimentation, videos and along with some other guys progressed mat design.
Things get murky post GG about who now holds the inflatable chalice but Dale Solomonson made some amazing design and materials progression but has retired.
These days there’s several mats that are mass produced and a few who make them individually for each customer.
No one knows who else is out there making mats or inflatable prone surfcraft but it’s a small market considering the popularity of mats prior to the invention of the boogie board in 1971.
Wow, 1971 sounds like so long ago.
Monkstar, I missed your post. I thought on the thread the heat seal stuff didn't work. I'll post up what I bought but cleaning with acetone seems to have gotten me a good seal on my test seam.
Surffoils, my buddy bought a commercial mat so we have two guys on mats here in LA. His is a Krypt and it's pretty nice but you've shown me the way and I think mine is going to be pretty nice. I've seen a couple of other guys but never said hello. Hoping to scope out a couple of untouched waves that are unmakeable on a board. Thanks for sharing the info, I'm going to try to glue this up this weekend.
like
0
The Cowboy
Standing up, laying down, putting on fins, whatever it takes to get a wave.
Greenough doesn't make mats. My understanding is that his long term collaborator, Paul Gross (of 4GF mats) makes them and sends experimental models to Greenough, based on his specifications or Paul's own ideas.
Brett - have the flexy bottom/rigid deck mats progressed at all?
Hi Bob, the rigid deck inflatables are probably the most unique craft to not be publicly seen but I did post a few pics a while ago.
I’m still working on finding the best way to make the flexible yet hard decks. The benefits are that with an inflatable hul” you get the speed and glide of a mat but the semi-rigid deck gives a positive control system.
Making mats involves understanding a few basics and then there’s a world of design to explore.
Oddly, mat people say there’s only one mat design.
Deck and hull skins done. Time to join them together with a few tabs around the perimeter.
Remember this is the inside of the mat that you see now.
When it comes to joining material the best tension is none.
Close to 100 handmade mats now and it's clear that building the best mats is more than just sticking things together, it's about the materials, the glues, planning, preparation, even how you approach the build.
Know your design, your tools, your self and move forward with purpose. Have confidence in yourself.
image.jpg
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image.jpg
image.jpg
Here's the 105 I-beams or posts that I use to connect the deck to the hull, they form a very light and flexible system inside the surf mat.
With 105 different points to design with I can plot and create all the bottom contours - Single into double concaves, concave into Vee, even asymmetrical, whatever. It's created innovation into surfmat design becuase I can customise surf mats into a thousand different designs. Just takes a bit more brain power to work out all the number so the curves and concaves are smooth.
When it's at low inflation it's flexible but when you grip the corners it fills out to create the contours.
image.jpg
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And then turn the mat inside out so all that architecture is on the inside.
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Very cool looking. I agree about materials/glue/prep. I started messing with 200D but quickly went to 70D. Now that I think about it, I really liked the 200D, maybe I'll go give that another try.
Send me your dinged, damaged, and yellowed.
BackyardBullard.com
This is sooooo ingenius:
mat tabs.jpg
Glad you dropped in John, We've got 2 weeks of school holidays here so I'm hanging with my sons and then I'll start your mat. Gives me 2 weeks to do some minor R & D too. I'll make yours and then stop hogging this thread.
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This photo clearly demonstrates some far out creativity unseen in what might be called the world of normalcy...
6august2012011-Copy.jpg
Connecting the flexible posts to the deck side.
( Second pic is from the inside of the inflated mat. You can see the strips are perfectly straight, perfectly aligned.)
Then pop in an inflation valve.
Then reinforce the perimeter with a vinyl edge strip. The strip completely changes the rail shape, instead of an inflated curve it becomes a peaked rail that allows the water to shear of with absolutely minimal drag.
Please guys, drop in with a comment or two so I know if you like or not or what you want to see, thanks.image.jpeg
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Keep it coming......i think this thread is absolutely brilliant !!!...Im hopeing to try this soon myself.
Cheers
Spx
One thing I dont get though is how you glue the top layer on?...i.e what's the sequence? do you work from one end to the other in a "reverse peel" fashion?
Spx
I worked from the inside ribs out.
Send me your dinged, damaged, and yellowed.
BackyardBullard.com
Both techniques work, if you attach the deck and hull skins back to back, connect the strips to one side and then do the "reverse peel" to slowly turn the mat right side in and then attach each row of strips as you go.
On the other hand if you do the strips or I-beams from the inside to the outside as Monkstar said and then seal the perimeter.
There's another way with both sides being one piece and wrapping it around and sealing the ends. I'll do it that way next for Johns mat.
Just a few pics of the finished mat and it's differences.
Tapered and rounded outline.
Tapered thickness. Front 4.5" Tail 3.5".
Ultralight clear vinyl front hull insert.
Peaked rails.
105 internal strips that create a hull that looks and feels like a Flat Bed of Bubbles .
3 different weight materials... 120 deck / 70 hull / 30 clear insert.
You know you want to pull into a tube on it !!
I gave it away but had to promise to make another mat to get this one back. .
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Oh man, that's nice.
Send me your dinged, damaged, and yellowed.
BackyardBullard.com
Thanks for the props guys, I've never seen anyone else do surf mat design like this but I hope the pro makers try my designs because they do work.
Especially the tapered/ rounded outline or plan shape. John Mellors surf mat is next so I'll do a completely clear model for him. Here's a pic that shows why all performance surf mats should be pulled in at the tail.
image.jpeg
Just loving this, Surffoils. Brilliant.
All the best
Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught. - Winston Churchill
Thanks Greg.
I'll do John Mellors mat now, it's a much simpler design, easy to build and bulletproof becuase there's less glueing.
Pic 1/. I have my designs on pieces of ply so I lay the vinyl over the design and mark with a pen where everything goes like the connecting strips and the apex of the rails and the overall dimensions. I've used tape so you can see where the positions are.
Pic 2/. Then cut out the single piece that going to be the top, bottom and rails. And the connecting strips. There's 45 of them for this mat.
Pic 3/. And here's all the pieces ready to glue.
Pic 4/. At the end when you fold the sides over to create the top, the strips align with the positions on the bottom. Then you seal the ends and it's done. I'm timing how long it takes to build this one. This is 36 minutes.
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Amazing work surffoils! Those clear mats are so rad!
Has anybody in the US found a good glue to use?
Hi Josh, here's the stuff I use , it's from the US so should be easy to get for you. You must use the primer as well, it's clheap and you can get the primer from any hardware store.
image.jpeg
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The internal structure is what gives the mat it's inflated shape, it could be beams / strips / wires but whatever you use it needs to be accurately done.
This mat has only 45 internal strips connecting the deck and hull.
They start as 1 inch wide flat strips, then define the height (4 inches) and make a folded tab at both ends to glue to the skins. To create the folded tabs, I use a warm iron. The vinyl is a thermoplastic so fold it, heat and hold and when it cools the fold is sharp and permanent.
Glue the tabs to both skins as accurately as you can and when you're done it's almost finished.
total time 2.5 hours.
image.jpeg
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Pic 1/ sealed the sides folded over onto the deck.
Pic 2/ Glued in inflation valve.
Pic 3/ Sealing the ends you can go 3 ways....Just glue the two flat pieces together.
Pic 4/ Same as 1, and then fold over onto itself. Really strong technique.
Pic 5/ Fold the ends inside the mat, looks cool, no flap.
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This is by far the most comprehensive demonstration on mat construction ever... anywhere. I don't think it's a topic that has even been considered for mass consumption.
Incredible!
Can you put a leash on it? Or is that not appropriate?
All the best
Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught. - Winston Churchill
Greg, I think I've gone way past what's considered 'appropriate' on a Surfmat.
But I could do almost anything requested. For the leash I'd probably add something to the outside rather than punch a hole in it somewhere.
I've done the 2nd sealing technique on the front and the 3rd at the back. The only difference with sealing the ends is that the middle will pull in and create a concave on the sides.
3.5 hours build time so far.
image.jpeg
And it's done. 4 hours build time.
Not a traditional mat, but John seemed fascinated by the other clear mat so he can have his own one now.
All the construction marking were on the outside so I'll clean it up, test that it's airtight over a few days and then take it down for a ceremonial baptism at my local beach and then post it off.
image.jpg
image.jpg
image.jpg
image.jpg
John, your surfmat is guaranteed airtight and ready to go.
I gave it a quick baptism in the shore here in Australia, then asked my teenage son to gently roll and wrap it and then he says he didn't wipe it dry so it will arrive with Australian sea salt as a garnish !
Should've put a leash loop on it because it kinda blends in with the wave foam. Hope you don't lose it !
image.jpeg
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Hi Brett - Thanks so much! Can't wait to try it!!!
Johns got his mat and I've built another one.
200/70 D, curved outline, tapered thickness, flat deck/ curved tail rocker, staggered I-beams, variable rail radius.
Just the standard stuff.
Next one will be something really different.
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Did a few in 2015, tapered mats with a thinner tail width.
Triple weight mat with clear hull.
Extra heavy yellow river rafting mat.
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Thanks so much for sharing your exploration into the build side of surf mats. I've been mating for a little over 5yrs, and wasn't exactly sure what was going on inside my new favorite surfcraft.
Very interesting read, thanks again...
SMAD, That's great that you've enjoyed the thread. I whip up a new mat design now and then so if you've got an idea or want more mat build info, just ask.
20170220_mat_001.jpg
Send me your dinged, damaged, and yellowed.
BackyardBullard.com
IMG_2626.PNG
Send me your dinged, damaged, and yellowed.
BackyardBullard.com
The Cowboy
Standing up, laying down, putting on fins, whatever it takes to get a wave.
Send me your dinged, damaged, and yellowed.
BackyardBullard.com
The Cowboy
Standing up, laying down, putting on fins, whatever it takes to get a wave.
C526BE53-DAD6-463A-A77B-3E975FF3DC92.jpeg
The Cowboy
Standing up, laying down, putting on fins, whatever it takes to get a wave.
7CC308F7-D83C-47E9-B9C1-7F55AE83D9B7.jpeg
132BCA42-33BB-4021-948C-91E8B4C407EB.jpeg
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