Well,,,I finally made it into errors and bugs..... Ok, I'm sure I've been here before.......Fun Stuff.... Display your surfboard in a public place with easy access to tape measures and guess what happens ??? Send your surfboard in for ding repair...guess what happens. Post up photos on the internet and people do what? I have a friend that knows how to take the stuff on a web page like CI and plug it into a shaping program....People measure your surfboards.....I'm not stealing anything. I don't give a care about Twiggy. I'm pointing out what happens in real life.......I just got called a What by SurfTeach? Really. There's no rules in the surf industry.........Back stabbers everywhere......I hear it all the time and I'm just a guy with a real job that turns down surfboard work........
Last summer I shaped a 9'4" longboard with a BruceJones blank. I think it was a 9"9"B. Round nose, rolled bottom, 50/50 rails, pin tail.......Guess what? My new Bruce Jones LongBoard has all these concepts. And even though I've never seen or held a Bruce Jones surfboard prior to 2-28-15 the naysayers could say I copied that board. To a tee...............
Never shaped gun. Never riden a gun. Try my best not to give advice on fin placement. Inspired, influnced, Stoked!
I'm a moderator, and I didn't move the thread, even 'tho I followed it from the beginning. I don't even think it should have been moved, but I respect the right of others to feel differently, so I'm not gonna move it back.
Here's my take - its a good discussion, of a valid topic. Is it OK to take measurements off other people's boards, without their permission? Is it illegal? Unethical? If so, why? If not, why not? Are surfboard designs "intellectual property" protected by law? I enjoy hearing the differing opinions. It it OK to take measurements of other's work, but not OK to build your business on the back of others' work when you are not compensating them? All food for thought / discussion, in my book.
I think its a pertinent issue on this site, and I think good points were being made in all directions. It brought back to Swaylocks some voices I haven't heard in awhile, and I was glad for it. I thought the original post was done tastefully, and without any "mudslinging", other than to express disapproval of someone's actions and business model.
We talk about rowboats (SUPs) in the lineup, health issues, China boards, machine shapes, and a whole plethora of topics that don't include surfboard design talk. To me, this is no different. Just another facet of the great big world of surfboards. Open discussion on a variety of topics is healthy, IMO, and I only tend to get involved (as a moderator) when a thread is getting seriously derailed into personal insults, threats, etc. I would say the "douche" comment was uncalled for, but Ray took it gracefully, so maybe no harm no foul.
To each their own, I guess, but I like to see the site remain open for discussion on a variety of surfboard related topics.
You've just proved once again why you are a great moderator: A balanced, rational view with the eloquence to communicate it. I agree with you 100%. I stay out of the mud most of the time, but I found the questions that are brought up by the original poster to be interesting and ultimately very important to the subject of surfboard design and manufacture.
I agree with you. I would like the conversation to go on...
I'm no Angel. I'm not much of a word smith. I like SurfTeach too.......I was thinking about starting a thread about Ethics but decided to step away..... chill time for Stingray......Thanks Swaylock.
"I pulled my first comment . Thanks for the feedback.
People are going to do what they are going to do. Watch your back and live better. Shapers are going to go on creating really amazing boards to ride . Keep the stoke. j
- See more at: http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/wanna-bee-big-wave-gun-guy-1#sthash.YdIH..."
Pulled first comment? How does that work? Sweep it all under the rug? Gosh.........I was waiting for the group hug. I love surfing ....I'm trying to finish a few boards right now but the real job pays better. My Pal Munant Mike needs work so it you need an awesome airbrush send me a pm or look for Mike in Oceanside, Ca
"Here's my take - its a good discussion, of a valid topic. Is it OK to take measurements off other people's boards, without their permission? Is it illegal? Unethical? If so, why? If not, why not? Are surfboard designs "intellectual property" protected by law? I enjoy hearing the differing opinions. It it OK to take measurements of other's work, but not OK to build your business on the back of others' work when you are not compensating them? All food for thought / discussion, in my book."
I only want to address the subject of Intellectual Property here. I recently expressed in another thread that to my knowledge, there has never been a court decision granting any surfer or shaper the right of "I.P." for any surfboard shape consisting of combinations of compound curves incorporated into the outline, rails, deck, bottom, tail, fins, etc. . Patents have successfully been linked to hardware in association with a board like Karl Pope's latches on the Morey Pope Bi-Sect/Tri-Sect, and Bill Bahne's Fins Unlimited. variable track, pin and bind fin box aka the "Bahne Box'.
Likewise, Matt Drake & Hoyle Schweitzer's "Universa" attaching mast to board in creating the Trademarked Windsurfer. I do not know if Malcom & Duncan Campbell were able to get a patent on their "Bonzer" design which was based on the concave/fin runner Venturi effect . Perhaps that was just a trademark?
If you contemplate the possible positive and negative ramifications of "I.P." regarding surfboards, it could, in some respects, become a whole hideous can of worms if given to the lawyers to sort out.
Think about it: a guy comes to any one of you for a shape, he orders the custom dims that he likes and you shape it up. He picks up the finished board, and a few weeks later you get a notice from his lawyer with a "Cease & Desist" to shaping anything with three fins and a round pintail.
Your customer is claiming you are shaping his design. The letter goes on to say that the guy had drawn up a logo that he gave to you and you printed it onto tissue paper and had the glass shop laminate it onto his board for him. Now his lawyer is saying because you did this, you voluntarily demonstrated a willingness to make this surfboard his "model" and therefore you are to immediately cease ever making a three fin rounded pin surfboard without compensating him forevermore!
Stranger things have happened....... BF out.
- See more at: http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/wanna-bee-big-wave-gun-guy-1#sthash.unEk...
Taking hand measurements off a board to get a basic concept for hand building a board I have no problem with. I doubt there is anyone who's ever made a surfboard that hasn't done this if they are truly being honest.
If you want to talk about taking detailed precise measurements, entering them into a computer program and using a machine to make duplicates of someone else's work that is an entirely different topic.
PS: The real problem with the original post that started this is you had a annonymous poster calling out someone pretty much by name and making an unsubstantiated alligation. That was a bullshit thing to do. At very least the original poster should have the ballz to identify himself before making that sort of alligation on a public forum.
While the o.p. openly stated he did not agree with the person's actions, he did not at any point accuse him of doing anything illegal. Nor did he call for any type of retribution or legal action. He also stated that the person in question did not find anything wrong with the actions (measuring surfboards), and had blown off his comments to the contrary. So its not like an unsubstantiated allegation in the sense of an illegal or or even a disputed action, its just one person's view of the morality of an action differing from another's.
Basically, he said
I was in such-and-such a place (with a myriad of big wave guns around) and so-and-so was going through and measuring them openly and in public view... I knew he would use this information in creating computer files for his new business venture machining and marketing big wave guns, and while he stated he found nothing wrong with it, I explained that I disagreed with him, and especially when it was my shape he wanted to measure.
I don't find anything offensive in this approach to opening the discussion. Could happen to any one of us, and there is no reason it can't be discussed here. We don't need some type of legal subtantiation for every comment we make about someone's actions that we disagree with.
This is a legitimate issue, and yes, people's viewpoints are going to differ. It should come as no surprise that those engaged in measuring others' surfboards as part of their business model would not find it as objectional as, say, them folks who's boards are being measured.
How do you feel about digging through and studying the trash of a competing business to look for clues that would aid you in competing with them? It is not illegal. I wouldn't do it, but I know one company I worked for did this, and was told by the person (business owner) who did it.
I don't recall anyone stating that the person admitted to taking precise measurements to duplicate the boards exactly (to do that is the realm of the computer scan, not the tape measure), just that he was using information gleaned from the hard work of others to develop board files that would be used to machine surfboards. The difference is that the boards produced would be influenced by the work of others, but not necessarily an exact copy.
Its a good topic to explore, and worthy of hearing differing viewpoints.
What the original anonymoust poster did was write a post that was intended to be damaging to the business of the person he pinpointed. None of us even know if the accusation made by the person who didn't have the ballz to use his own name are even true. Surry but that's was a gutless move true or not. Pulling down his original post was even more proof of that.