Let me add to Greg Tate's introductory comments. It is OK with me if you guys want to comment on my comments or ask more questions. Just try to avoid everyone throwing in their 2 cents when it comes to answering the questions. I don't mind a bit of discussion.
here's one
Aloha Bill!
Thank you for taking the time to carefully answer each of our queries.
I can relate to the marksman statement of “boring”, once you are dialed in.
Always kept it fun by messin’ with the rounds.
And in a lot of ways this is relative in shaping (to me).
I would like to humbly ask your take on rail shapes.
In particular at the business end in high energy waves.
Bill, I will understand if you don’t care to comment, as this is a touchy subject.
I’ve been going softer in more energy.
Don’t feel that I’m wasting my time, just running out of it.
Thanks in advance for any explanation and results shared.
like
0
I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.
Bill-- in a recent issue of Surfing, Rusty cited you as his biggest influence. Care to elaborate on your history with Rusty? Did you work together. In what ways do you think you may have been an influence on his shaping?? Are you coming over for the Del Mar show honoring Rusty in May?? Lowel
Bill-- in a recent issue of Surfing, Rusty cited you as his biggest influence. Care to elaborate on your history with Rusty? Did you work together. In what ways do you think you may have been an influence on his shaping?? Are you coming over for the Del Mar show honoring Rusty in May?? Lowel
Aloha McDing
This would probably be much better answered by Rusty himself and maybe I will bug him to do so. Hopefully when he reads this our versions won't very much.
I think it was around 1978 or 79 that I first met Rusty in San Diego. I had many team riders from the area and they were bugging me to come over and do some shaping and hang out. Among them were Debbie Beacham, Chris O'roarke, Sandy Ordille, Timmy Senneff, Doddie Hackamack, and others that I am probably forgetting. Debbie arranged with Rusty, who I had never met, for me to be able to use his shaping room. Debbie put the whole thing together and let me stay at her and Lewis's house in La Jolla. Thank you Debbie!
Rusty was actively shaping then for Canyon I think so he graciously gave me a lot of time in his workspace. I had rented a sporty red Mustang and headed out to meet him at his shaping room to see how suitable it was and how this was all going to work out. Rusty's room was actually one of many storage lockers in a large complex out in eastern San Diego. I think it was about 25 feet long and about 12 foot wide or more. Rusty is a huge guy compared to me, at only 5'6", so his room was all set up for his size which I think is over 6'.
His shaping racks were sooooo tall.....! And the space was so huge. My rooms are usually 8' wide by 15' long. Very compact, tightly organized effecient and super clean.
WARNING!!! S ome of this is going to sound like I am putting Rusty down, but that isn't it at all. There is a punch line to this story and if I don't tell you the bad stuff, the good stuff at the end of the story won't have much meaning.
So I meet up with Rusty and checked out his workspace......
And Oh My...!!! it is a mess! Stuff strewn everywhere and covered in foam dust to the point that the walls which were painted black, and only on the lower half, didn't even look dark. Rusty had a lot of stuff in there. The first 10 feet or so was kind of a storage area that was littered with all kinds of objects. Old chairs, airconditioners, blanks strewn around, I think a small compressor and a ton of stuff that I don't remember exaclty but it was all clogging up this storage/entrance area in one way or another.
The shaping space was more sad, it was full of old sandpaper. I mean tons of old sandpaper! (hopefully Rusty is laughing now) There was what seemed like every old sheet of sandpaper that Rusty had ever used in his life. Plus there were also all kinds of smaller pieces cut into various odd shapes. All this stuff was laying on top of the shelves over each of the side lights, along with foam dust and all kinds of other miscelanious hand tools. Plus there was stuff in all the corners and along the floor, including templates etc. My mental imprint of the space was like...... Oh My, how do you get anything done in here and get it done precisely! The space was depressing and not conducive to precision work and it was reflective of a broken artist. One who had lost there fire and who's creative compass couldnt find its focus.
The Shaping Racks were tall and had huge truck axle hubs or something for the bases and were not adjustable. They easily snagged the planers power cord. They were way to tall for me, so I think we laid down some 8" hollow tile blocks and covered them with plywood so that I coud walk around the racks as though I was as tall as Rusty! I did some minor organizing and clean up so that I could get to work and Rusty tollarated my OCD and leaning on him to throw away some of the stuff and get better organized. He said that he always saved his old sandpaper and it was a habit from days not that long past were one couldn't afford to waste it or something like that. The odd shaped smaller pieces were for shaping swallow tails and such. I could see this was going to be a challenge and while I wasn't there to teach anyone to shape or how to set up a good workspace, I didn't mind doing so in payback for the loan of the space. Still I have found that to be risky, as most people don't like to be told that they need to improve, and I often piss people off cause I can be too outspoken and direct. I don't tollerate BS very well, as I am geared to produce and hit high standards in all that I do and simply don't have time for things or people that impede that.
But surprisingly, in this case, Rusty was a very receptive sponge and didn't seem to balk at my requests or intentions to help. Over the next few days of hanging out together and shaping I encouraged him in all kinds of motivational ways and he was a great listener. We covered all kinds of techniques, design functions, workspace conditions and general attitudes and actions that lead to success. It was all good.
Like many in the industry Rusty had hit a level point were his best efforts weren't delivering him the kind or rewards his hard work and devotion deserved. I have seen this a zillion time in the surf industry and elsewhere. It is more set up to break ones heart then provide real success, and often does. We talked tons about the surf scene and how it worked and how to beat it and keep it from defeating you. And rather empowering you to excell beyond your contemporaries and even your own expectations. Of course, at this early point not much was going to be coming of it other then a lot of conversations.
We traded off shaping days so we both could get stuff done and then one day he told me he had a big order to get done and needed the room for a few days in a row. That was no problem for me as I was just cruising and having fun hanging out with Debbie and company!
A few day's later Rusty called me up ALL EXCITED and ANIMATED! He said "you gotta get out here right now, I have to show you something!" He was really emotional, but wouldn't tell me why, he just kept saying "get out here now"! So I drove out and met him there at the roll up door to his storage locker/shaping room. As he got ready to roll up the door, he said "step back". I thought maybe he had caught a mountain lion or Puma in there or something!!!! So he grabs the handle of the door and rolls it up quickly to expose the cluttered storage area and sea of crap that was all strewn around..... EXCEPT... that was not what I was seeing! The whole space was immaculately clean! The entrance/storage space now had wall racks on both sides where all the blanks were carefully arranged and the whole floor was covered with dark blue indoor outdoor carpet. The walls were all painted a beautiful dark blue color and all the scraps of sandpaper and sheets were gone. Nothing was in the room that didn't have a space set up for it and there was nothing there that wasn't necessary. It was simply beautiful..!!! I stood there with my mouth wide open.
In one blazing blue instant...... I knew Rusty had been listening and that he "GOT IT". He was like a new man! Of course the workspace improvements were a reflection of a deep personal change inside. I had shown him my MCS (Measurement Controlled Shaping) system and taught him that using it and tracking the measurements and the riders feedback, including his own, (he surfs well) would be able to in 18 months or so provide a deep enough data base that would begin to talk back to him and instruct him in exactly what to do to get any kind of performance he needed from any board.
Rusty was a very capable craftsman and dilligent worker with good artistic sense. But he was discouraged as he didnt have a system or even know such a thing existed, that would allow him to know exactly what he was making and exactly why he was making it that way.
I can't understate this. It is increadibly powerfull. When you know what to do, have the hand and eye skills to achieve it precisely, shaping gets super exciting! The alternative is just guessing and copying. That is boring and hugely depressing to know that you really don't know what you need to and have to just guess. And it is deeply humiliating that you have to copy others to make things that will only marginally work. And even more so, that you don't know why it works or doesn't work, and others seemingly do. (but propably don't but play a good game of pretending they do)
Rusty embraced all this and he took off like a rocket! That next season he came and worked for me as my ghost shaper in Hawaii making Twin Fins. He did fine but his boards which were supposed to be copies of mine didn't look exactly the same. My Japanese agent and dealers noticed right away. I DIDN'T sign the boards as though mine as I am not a fan of that kind of deception. And neither did Rusty sign them. This was that 18 month training period I mentioned where the hand and eye begins to get comfortable replicating things precisely because you are now shaping to precise numbers with every board, and you must hit them to achieve success. Therefore, your hands and eyes must be trained to rise to the challenge. Any extraneous techniques, tools, pieces of sandpaper or useless habits have to be done away with so that the mind and body can focus clearly on a very a narrow goal for each board, without any distractions.
Shortly after this, when I knew Rusty was solidly on track to achieve success, I sent Shaun Tomson to him to begin getting boards. I told Shaun that Rusty knew the system and would have him dialed in within a few boards and to give him a chance.
That's some great background right there Bill. I do appreciate knowing the history and background. I rode his Thrusters in the '80's under the Canyon label. They were sent North to Central Coast Surf Shop in SLO. Mostly 6"8, 6'3and a 6'10" gun that I took to Oahu one March. So you think you might make it over to Del Mar in may?? Lowel
That's some great background right there Bill. I do appreciate knowing the history and background. I rode his Thrusters in the '80's under the Canyon label. They were sent North to Central Coast Surf Shop in SLO. Mostly 6"8, 6'3and a 6'10" gun that I took to Oahu one March. So you think you might make it over to Del Mar in may?? Lowel
Aloha Lowel
I have never been invited to one of those things. I am a big fan of the energy they seem to have. It is really great to get the focus back on surfboads instead of what brand of Trucker Hat is cool enough to wear! I am not sure what my schedule will be like in May. There is something big on the horizon around that time that will require my presence......
here's one
Aloha Bill!
Thank you for taking the time to carefully answer each of our queries.
I can relate to the marksman statement of “boring”, once you are dialed in.
Always kept it fun by messin’ with the rounds.
And in a lot of ways this is relative in shaping (to me).
I would like to humbly ask your take on rail shapes.
In particular at the business end in high energy waves.
Bill, I will understand if you don’t care to comment, as this is a touchy subject.
I’ve been going softer in more energy.
Don’t feel that I’m wasting my time, just running out of it.
Thanks in advance for any explanation and results shared.
I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.
www.mattysurfboards.com
Sanding & Glossing Shaun's board today. I will be back! In the mean time check this out.
surfersvillage.com - Shaun Tomson's 1983 Zig Zag Gun gets exact replica - Surfing News, Surfing Contest, All the surf in one website
Hi Bill-
Thanks again for being in the hot seat. Looking forward to the discussion of fins based on Privateer's questions.
-J
http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J
Me too!
POST #39
Thanks anyway!
Shapahodad bomb.
2 BAD
So long, and thanks for all the fish...
I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.
www.mattysurfboards.com
Aloha McDing
This would probably be much better answered by Rusty himself and maybe I will bug him to do so. Hopefully when he reads this our versions won't very much.
I think it was around 1978 or 79 that I first met Rusty in San Diego. I had many team riders from the area and they were bugging me to come over and do some shaping and hang out. Among them were Debbie Beacham, Chris O'roarke, Sandy Ordille, Timmy Senneff, Doddie Hackamack, and others that I am probably forgetting. Debbie arranged with Rusty, who I had never met, for me to be able to use his shaping room. Debbie put the whole thing together and let me stay at her and Lewis's house in La Jolla. Thank you Debbie!
Rusty was actively shaping then for Canyon I think so he graciously gave me a lot of time in his workspace. I had rented a sporty red Mustang and headed out to meet him at his shaping room to see how suitable it was and how this was all going to work out. Rusty's room was actually one of many storage lockers in a large complex out in eastern San Diego. I think it was about 25 feet long and about 12 foot wide or more. Rusty is a huge guy compared to me, at only 5'6", so his room was all set up for his size which I think is over 6'.
His shaping racks were sooooo tall.....! And the space was so huge. My rooms are usually 8' wide by 15' long. Very compact, tightly organized effecient and super clean.
WARNING!!! S ome of this is going to sound like I am putting Rusty down, but that isn't it at all. There is a punch line to this story and if I don't tell you the bad stuff, the good stuff at the end of the story won't have much meaning.
So I meet up with Rusty and checked out his workspace......
And Oh My...!!! it is a mess! Stuff strewn everywhere and covered in foam dust to the point that the walls which were painted black, and only on the lower half, didn't even look dark. Rusty had a lot of stuff in there. The first 10 feet or so was kind of a storage area that was littered with all kinds of objects. Old chairs, airconditioners, blanks strewn around, I think a small compressor and a ton of stuff that I don't remember exaclty but it was all clogging up this storage/entrance area in one way or another.
The shaping space was more sad, it was full of old sandpaper. I mean tons of old sandpaper! (hopefully Rusty is laughing now) There was what seemed like every old sheet of sandpaper that Rusty had ever used in his life. Plus there were also all kinds of smaller pieces cut into various odd shapes. All this stuff was laying on top of the shelves over each of the side lights, along with foam dust and all kinds of other miscelanious hand tools. Plus there was stuff in all the corners and along the floor, including templates etc. My mental imprint of the space was like...... Oh My, how do you get anything done in here and get it done precisely! The space was depressing and not conducive to precision work and it was reflective of a broken artist. One who had lost there fire and who's creative compass couldnt find its focus.
The Shaping Racks were tall and had huge truck axle hubs or something for the bases and were not adjustable. They easily snagged the planers power cord. They were way to tall for me, so I think we laid down some 8" hollow tile blocks and covered them with plywood so that I coud walk around the racks as though I was as tall as Rusty! I did some minor organizing and clean up so that I could get to work and Rusty tollarated my OCD and leaning on him to throw away some of the stuff and get better organized. He said that he always saved his old sandpaper and it was a habit from days not that long past were one couldn't afford to waste it or something like that. The odd shaped smaller pieces were for shaping swallow tails and such. I could see this was going to be a challenge and while I wasn't there to teach anyone to shape or how to set up a good workspace, I didn't mind doing so in payback for the loan of the space. Still I have found that to be risky, as most people don't like to be told that they need to improve, and I often piss people off cause I can be too outspoken and direct. I don't tollerate BS very well, as I am geared to produce and hit high standards in all that I do and simply don't have time for things or people that impede that.
But surprisingly, in this case, Rusty was a very receptive sponge and didn't seem to balk at my requests or intentions to help. Over the next few days of hanging out together and shaping I encouraged him in all kinds of motivational ways and he was a great listener. We covered all kinds of techniques, design functions, workspace conditions and general attitudes and actions that lead to success. It was all good.
Like many in the industry Rusty had hit a level point were his best efforts weren't delivering him the kind or rewards his hard work and devotion deserved. I have seen this a zillion time in the surf industry and elsewhere. It is more set up to break ones heart then provide real success, and often does. We talked tons about the surf scene and how it worked and how to beat it and keep it from defeating you. And rather empowering you to excell beyond your contemporaries and even your own expectations. Of course, at this early point not much was going to be coming of it other then a lot of conversations.
We traded off shaping days so we both could get stuff done and then one day he told me he had a big order to get done and needed the room for a few days in a row. That was no problem for me as I was just cruising and having fun hanging out with Debbie and company!
A few day's later Rusty called me up ALL EXCITED and ANIMATED! He said "you gotta get out here right now, I have to show you something!" He was really emotional, but wouldn't tell me why, he just kept saying "get out here now"! So I drove out and met him there at the roll up door to his storage locker/shaping room. As he got ready to roll up the door, he said "step back". I thought maybe he had caught a mountain lion or Puma in there or something!!!! So he grabs the handle of the door and rolls it up quickly to expose the cluttered storage area and sea of crap that was all strewn around..... EXCEPT... that was not what I was seeing! The whole space was immaculately clean! The entrance/storage space now had wall racks on both sides where all the blanks were carefully arranged and the whole floor was covered with dark blue indoor outdoor carpet. The walls were all painted a beautiful dark blue color and all the scraps of sandpaper and sheets were gone. Nothing was in the room that didn't have a space set up for it and there was nothing there that wasn't necessary. It was simply beautiful..!!! I stood there with my mouth wide open.
In one blazing blue instant...... I knew Rusty had been listening and that he "GOT IT". He was like a new man! Of course the workspace improvements were a reflection of a deep personal change inside. I had shown him my MCS (Measurement Controlled Shaping) system and taught him that using it and tracking the measurements and the riders feedback, including his own, (he surfs well) would be able to in 18 months or so provide a deep enough data base that would begin to talk back to him and instruct him in exactly what to do to get any kind of performance he needed from any board.
Rusty was a very capable craftsman and dilligent worker with good artistic sense. But he was discouraged as he didnt have a system or even know such a thing existed, that would allow him to know exactly what he was making and exactly why he was making it that way.
I can't understate this. It is increadibly powerfull. When you know what to do, have the hand and eye skills to achieve it precisely, shaping gets super exciting! The alternative is just guessing and copying. That is boring and hugely depressing to know that you really don't know what you need to and have to just guess. And it is deeply humiliating that you have to copy others to make things that will only marginally work. And even more so, that you don't know why it works or doesn't work, and others seemingly do. (but propably don't but play a good game of pretending they do)
Rusty embraced all this and he took off like a rocket! That next season he came and worked for me as my ghost shaper in Hawaii making Twin Fins. He did fine but his boards which were supposed to be copies of mine didn't look exactly the same. My Japanese agent and dealers noticed right away. I DIDN'T sign the boards as though mine as I am not a fan of that kind of deception. And neither did Rusty sign them. This was that 18 month training period I mentioned where the hand and eye begins to get comfortable replicating things precisely because you are now shaping to precise numbers with every board, and you must hit them to achieve success. Therefore, your hands and eyes must be trained to rise to the challenge. Any extraneous techniques, tools, pieces of sandpaper or useless habits have to be done away with so that the mind and body can focus clearly on a very a narrow goal for each board, without any distractions.
Shortly after this, when I knew Rusty was solidly on track to achieve success, I sent Shaun Tomson to him to begin getting boards. I told Shaun that Rusty knew the system and would have him dialed in within a few boards and to give him a chance.
And the rest is......as they says, HISTORY...!
That's some great background right there Bill. I do appreciate knowing the history and background. I rode his Thrusters in the '80's under the Canyon label. They were sent North to Central Coast Surf Shop in SLO. Mostly 6"8, 6'3and a 6'10" gun that I took to Oahu one March. So you think you might make it over to Del Mar in may?? Lowel
Aloha Lowel
I have never been invited to one of those things. I am a big fan of the energy they seem to have. It is really great to get the focus back on surfboads instead of what brand of Trucker Hat is cool enough to wear! I am not sure what my schedule will be like in May. There is something big on the horizon around that time that will require my presence......
3:00 AM.
Shaun's board is glossed on deck side and curing.
2 other boards are Hotcoated and curing.
I am heading home for some sleep!
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