Stubby questions

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

Normally, I would consider under 7' too short for me, but I got this stringerless blank free (thank you McDing) it's 6-9 x 24, so I've decided to build a stubby, maybe 6-7 x 23 or thereabouts - because the rocker is not as flat as I'd like for a Simmons type board, or a fish.  I still think I can make this board work for me, my planshape will maximize the foam that's there, its very close to the shape of the blank.

So I'm gonna use a Simmons type outline, but my plan is to go with belly in the nose, flat in the middle, V in the tail, with a thruster fin setup. Pinched rails in the nose, maybe a bevel bottom through the middle, and standard down rails in the tail.  This is all stuff I've used on past boards that have worked well for me, but never on a stubby, and this will have a wider tail than I've ever done before..

I'm not committed to anything definitely, like to hear any suggestions / input you have. Especially on fins / bottom.  I found an old thread where most the stubbies were single fins, that was a surprise, I was thinking the wide tail would lend itself more to a thruster or quad setup, even twin maybe, but with rail fins not a single.  Trying to keep an open mind on this.  Looking through Fowler's F.O.Y. thread in surfshop I notice he is going single fin on some of his wide tail models, with extreme V.

Anyway, tonight I cut it open and added a stringer from a scrap piece of 3/16" plywood I had laying around, and rough-cut the planshape.  Here are some pics.

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WhiteSurfBoards's picture
Joined: 08/14/2011

Well Huck this is a query a newbee like myself can answer. 

Since your thinking outside the box on a Simmons. How about a double V, with twin fin? I saw a pic from ace and it looks good and he had nothing bad to say(I think he did a single fin). I am toying with the double V & twinner on my sons fish or I may keep it simple and real retro as a twin. 

Good luck

SW

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

[quote=WhiteSurfBoards]How about a double V, with twin fin? [/quote]

I do not know what a double V is.

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mrdogboy's picture
Joined: 09/18/2010
How about do a quad set up then a single find box. FCS makes an adaptor that goes in the single box to hold that center thruster fin. Also, you cloud be able to go single with bonzer fins for fun. As for stringer less, do the rails in carbon fiber tape, that will bring the strength back, and give the board some stiffness and longevity. Like the out line now, can I borrow it?
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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

Thanks mrdogboy - Do you have a recommended quad set and dimensions for install?  Pictures?  Looking for advice.  It has a stringer now!  

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lankameese's picture
Joined: 09/07/2007

I might suggest Bill Thrailkill's Broomtail Fish with his close set twin fin set up and the extra fcs plugs out on the corners of the tail for the small fins

I am 45, 210 lbs, and have been riding my EVF broomtail (EVF is a vac bagged epoxy glass system) pretty much exclusively lately, its 6'6 x 23 x 3ish... I live in NE florida and we have had a great run of waist to shoulder high surf for a while now and as long as there is any push in the wave this board rides great... I surfed yesterday for about two hours in waist to chest somewhat sloppy surf and this board has me stoked

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

my research turned up this...

BarrySnyder wrote:
Width can be detrimental for many reasons. When the whole Mini-simms took off and had customer request them, I had to make myself one. Needing to ride every model I shape, I went with the dims and contours of shapers I respected. Concave off the tail, big wide tailblock, flatter deck. Two words, hated it. Could not turn that thing for shit. Now, I'm a big guy, 6'4" 215 lbs. With a size 13 paw. So hard to get up on rail. I then realized why people surf those the way they do. Sold it. Back to the drawing board.

Mini's have a very straight outline, added some curviture. Diamond tail. Shorter rail line. Also squared off the nose. So I incorporated what I know about shortboards. I rode Tri's in the early 80's, wide tails. They had Vee. I also added more tail rocker. Not too much, but more. foiled out the entire tail area thin. I also realized that wide boards and deep concave did'nt turn all that good. So I shallowed the concave in the center, and began to run a wide beveled edge 3.5" or so, from nose to tail. Still kept the standard shortboard tucked edge. What a difference. This board turns on a dime.

This model became my Hitchcock model. One of my best selling boards.

ace wrote:

6' Hullygully......I think I have been spending too much time riding mats....Starting to warp my thinking....

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

WarrenC wrote:

tighter turning, yes, but also a lot more momentum thru your turns, very little to no lag of any kind, almost accelerates imo as you come fully around in your turns, a very strange and exciting sensation

 

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gadgetuk's picture
Joined: 04/01/2004

Huck wrote:
WarrenC wrote:
tighter turning, yes, but also a lot more momentum thru your turns, very little to no lag of any kind, almost accelerates imo as you come fully around in your turns, a very strange and exciting sensation


What thread is this from?

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009
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gdaddy's picture
Joined: 10/31/2008

I think it's too much surface area in the tail for a thruster.   I think the Tomo designs that use thrusters work in spite of the surface area because they're so narrow and short their riders can overpower them.   Traditional noseriders use a lot of tail rocker so maybe a bottom and fin combo for those types of turns could work.   Or maybe a twin-biased quad with the cluster moved forward.  

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

Hi gdaddy, glad to get your input here.  The tail will have to come in a bit, I rough cut the outline, but will probably bring it in an inch or more for the final cut.  Still, its gonna be a wide tail.  I did not know if thruster fin setup would work or not.  So it seems like my best bet is to set it up for quad and single (or twin-gle), giving myself the choice of the two most logical setups.  (Don't know what a twin biased quad is.)

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gdaddy's picture
Joined: 10/31/2008

I've been following Barry's formula for bottoms on wide boards for a while and I like the results.  ACE was doing a similar bottom on his quad Simms.  I tend to favor really subtle chines but it's apparent the more pronounced ones work really well.  

By twin-biased quad I'm referring to a tighter cluster with a 5+" twin fin in front and smaller rears.   I like those on boards with really wide tails.  

Another Sways poster (AFOAF) did a board some years ago that's a lot like your's and used the Thrailkill Twin on it.  He doesn't post here much anymore but if you sent him a PM he might be able to give you his feedback on the combo.  As I recall he was saying the same things Warren has been saying about them.  

I was in Bakersfield for work a couple weeks ago.  I should have called you in advance for a hook-up.  

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

OK, looks like a quad and single setup, options for either.  Please enlighten me with details on the recommended quad setup for this board, I'm all ears.   

I did a little rough shaping, but not too much, mostly just got it skinned and foiled, no small feat, these eco-tech blanks have a tough tough skin.  More scrubbing than planing, working in my backyard on a quiet afternoon.  Try to keep the planer work to a minimum, that Bosch of mine is a real screamer.  Anyway, its ready to shape now.

I'm working out of town these days, seldom around during the week.  Anyway I ran out of glass so my other board came to a halt, and I looked around and found this blank that McDing left me awhile back, and I started brainstorming to see if I could make something I could actually ride.  Jury is out on that one, but I figure its worth a try.

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gdaddy's picture
Joined: 10/31/2008

I would choose fin and bottom combos based on what conditions I was going to surf the board in and how I intended to surf it.  Since you do your own I reckon you could start with one setup and then if you want to try something different later you could add that on at that point.  

Test mules are fun.  

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mattwho's picture
Joined: 05/12/2014

Love this place!

Ah, sometimes like this.

Not one bad word of advice.

Barry, gdaddy and the rest.

What a headful

of directions to go!

My 2 cents

which is worth nothing!

But food for thought.

Some time ago we were testing at 2nd sea wall.

Crappy with some exceptions still not

really happening, yeah?

Observed "dis guy" just killin' it

Hunted him down and talked with him and fondled his board.

Local brand, cool guy mellow as hell.

FLAT!

Shades of Griffen!

Maybe just maybe.

KISS.

Fin set up?

Go "Thang" (5) for rears (we should talk)

Plenty options....

Aloha and eh,'

stay wet!

You 1/2  a century, old "Rippa"!   LOL

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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.

www.mattysurfboards.com

tenderloin tom's picture
Joined: 12/12/2012

I've made 3 this shape.A 6'2" then a 6'8" now fine tuned it to 6'5" with mild vee 22" wide and 3"~ thick. I went Single fin with all.very fun boards and user friendly.Just some input for you. 

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Scrub it kook

Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

thanks Tom, it looks great!  Matty, thanks for weighing in on this, unchartered territory for me, don't do too many boards this short or tails this wide.

Shaped it today, went with my gut and for better or worse what I ended up with: major panel V in the tail, flat through the middle but with a bevel on the bottom along the rail about 3 1/2" in, and hull-type belly in the nose.  You can see the kinda teardrop shaped flat bottom area in a few pics.  So pinched 50-50 rails, and thinned out nose and tail.  Other than that I tried to keep a volume through the middle, not much deck dome.  No concaves anywhere on this one.  6' 7" by 22 3/4" by just under 3".  Fully 12" wide at the tail.  Now I just need to get my hands on some glass!

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

Studying pictures on the internet for quad layouts, and guesstimating distances in my mind...

I'm thinking 4-5" up from the tail to the back of the rear fins, at 1 3/4" to 2" in from the rail, 9-10" from the tail to the back of the front fins, 1" to 1 1/4" in from the rails.  Both toed to converge somewhere around 30" in front of the nose.  Cant will be adjustable with ProBox.

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mattwho's picture
Joined: 05/12/2014

Huck,

Dog Gone Bitchen!

Flats and Vee, so very retro.

You studying McTavish?

Or just simply under deadshapers spell…

However Son, what you got there…

That board has potential for

Fun and stoke!

Kind of amazed with you, as going quad vs one big one.

This looks to my lame eyes as fronts @ ¼” toe in

Rears @ 3/16”

pretty much accepted practice.

Now the distance from the rail?

Front and back.

Very personal to most.

PM me for more of my lunacy on quad set ups and cants.

Ah,

One more thing…

If you remember the Twin fin era

Not “Kicking your fins” was #1 awaking.

Eh, maybe consider moving them in a little.

Shaping is spot on, really nice.

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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.

www.mattysurfboards.com

Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

Thanks, once I get to fin plug install I will PM you for more.  Will probably also add fin box for single, although rail fins seem more logical (to me) with such a wide tail.  Not specifically trying for particular style as far as shapers go, but yeah I'm sure there is a retro influence there.  I guess retro comes naturally at my age. I don't get vertical or airs, etc, just like to get a few waves, a little trimming and a little turning, when I paddle out.  A lot of the shape is taken from my favorite retro longboard, just added more V in the tail because of the width, and more belly in the nose because there is less of it, so to speak.  And the nose belly / pinched rails combo has worked well for me on a couple prior boards.  I didn't go with concaves because its a little bigger than most stubbies, and with the wide tail and nose I figure I have enough planing surface and maybe buoyancy to counter the need for added lift. I do think the concave seen on mini simmons boards loosens things up a bit on the wide tail, hopefully my V will do the same.

I just researched (i.e. yahoo search, as well as several old threads in the archives) what others were doing on their stubbies to make sure I wasn't too far out in left field, been there done that and ended up with a dog!  I have paid attention to DS's F.O.Y. boards, as well as Barry's Hitchcock model, ACE's stubbies.  Like most my stuff, I try to absorb what I can, then just go for my interpretation, sometimes it works out sometimes not so much.  I'm not a pro or even semi, just doing this for my own amusement, so not really looking to make a test mule, hopefully just a fun board - ha!

I will move the fins in a little to try to save my ankles, thanks for the heads up.  Convergence or toe-in measurements, just two ways of arriving at same or very similar thing.  

Again, thanks for commenting and insight - all appreciated!

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sidiabed's picture
Joined: 03/28/2015

I really like the thinness of the nose and tail of that shape Huck. 

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mattwho's picture
Joined: 05/12/2014

You are wise!

The center box FU standard.

Eh they make and FCS adapter if really wanta go

"Thang" (5).

Made mention of McTavish as yhis Olpharts memory of things I care to remember.

Flash back!

BTW noticed a Butch Towers in the background, sorry loss RIP...

Carry on and feed the stoke..

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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.

www.mattysurfboards.com

Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

Thanks sidiabed that was one thing clear in my mind even before I picked up my planer. It fattens up real quick towards the center, but I too like the look of the tapered rails and foiled ends.

Wow Matty that's amazing - I had never seen that before and was unaware anyone had arrived at the identical bottom configuration! Just a logical blending of V, bevel, and flat, to my mind. Proves once again nothing new under the sun, I am fully working in the shadow of McTavish on this one then, ha!

The Tower is a beater, a yard sale find beyond saving, but I plan to patch it and paint it and make some type of artistic wallhanger to save it from the landfill.

I will put a center box in, and love to hear more about the 5 fin thang of which you post.

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mattwho's picture
Joined: 05/12/2014

Much like the McTavish deal,

someone has ALWAYS done it first.

Who the hell knows???

Maybe the ancients tried the vee

I own an old side ass redwood / hollow plywood from the day

Vee no fin!

When I first saw the revolutionary boards, V’s

I learned that history is not to be ignored.

I educated myself and found Velzy to be a legendary innovator.

Giving my preference and development of what

I can’t call mine!

As far as what I am doing in quad set ups.

My thought and effort have been to make the quad

Transition from rail to rail more like the thruster.

In development I have robbed from the “Gemini” rears big time

And what I learned in the twin and early thruster days.

I mean Toe in, cant and placement.

Mission defined.

Now the width of your tail and how it will work.

Lately I have been moving the rears closer together

Eh, I want it to work and feel like a thruster.

Side note Bill Thrailkill’s fin set up “blows my mind”

To pieces on this!

Here is a stab at this

And it goes like this.

Ah, from the tail…

Rears @ 4 3/4”   3/16” toe, 4 degrees cant

Fronts @ 10 ¾” ¼” toe, 5 degree cant

In the ballpark for semi point surf.

Rule as I understand it

More cant = up down

Less cant = down the line

Toe in is pretty much established

HA!

I really enjoy breaking from that baloney

Oh a 4 me’s forget!

Rear for fifth (Thruster)

Is 3 5/16” up from tail

I thinking more “big” fin

So the FU box, hum.

Maybe think more single fin placement.

Bruce would be a good source.

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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.

www.mattysurfboards.com

mattwho's picture
Joined: 05/12/2014
Eh, Seems that the General forum can be as lonely as the EERB! You a Frank Herber, Dune fan? "Tell me of your home world Usel" Paul: I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when my fear is gone I will turn and face fear's path, and only I will remain. In seeking advancement of design And functionality better known as my God it works! And the rush of stoke that sustains us creatures. We, ah, at least myself feel like alien beings. I’ll jump up on my soap box again. We small timers can (almost) afford to mess around outside the accepted Or mainstream and I will jump down right there. “Imitators are not innovators” So, observing the overwhelming rush to help, give sound advice and etc. How about something a little provocative? Remember “the Contender”? 7-0 x 22 ½ mini longboard As I said prior Trying to make a thruster out of a quad. I’m thinking Make the rears more influential Already been doing that! Closer together 2 or less degree cant. So… On the Contender Changed the toe in Simply reversed it 3/16” front @ 7 degree cant ¼” rears @4 degree cant Front fins “inside” foil asymmetric Rears 60/40 foil LMAO!!! Never told Dustin Works great! Feel free to contact me
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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.

www.mattysurfboards.com

mattwho's picture
Joined: 05/12/2014

Hope all is O.K.

Here are some spy photo's

Of a well known shaper.

Nice fin set up!!!

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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.

www.mattysurfboards.com

Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

Thanks Mattwho all the help is appreciated!  I'm out of town during week so mostly online by phone, little tiny screen and typing - ugh!  At nights I have access to antique computer.  There's been waves every day this week, and last week too, so I'm not complaining.  I've been switching boards back and forth, but really should stick with the 7-4 awhile, its been the funnest every time.

Looking at the pics seems like ACE has his fins further back than most?  Fronts are single foiled, rears are foiled both sides.

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

How wide is that tail of ACE's? Gives me hope thruster might work. Really wanted to have thruster option - do u think it would work with the wide tail?

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mattwho's picture
Joined: 05/12/2014

Absolutely,

Give quads a chance. (Sung to J. Lennon’s “Give peace a chance")

First, dig the "thang" or 5 boxes

3 options.

And potential for feedback overload.

I deliberately leave out the 5th box.

Just to make "Boy" ride ‘em quad.

Push for development of the quad!!!

For God sakes we’ve been riding Mr. Simon Anderson’s gift for

Ah, 35 years now.

Again John Lennon...

“see video

My Motto.

Never become complacent.

Via the revolution.

Eh, turn down the sound!

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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.

www.mattysurfboards.com

Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

That's funny. Speak for yourself. :-) My 7-4 is the first thruster I've ever really ridden. So far I'm liking the way it handles late drops better than my singles. I thought I might be ready for my second thruster now - ha!

Threw some glass on the thing this weekend, first chance I got to work on it.  Thinking about fins, dug around and found these boxes, should work.

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mattwho's picture
Joined: 05/12/2014

That will work.

Keep in mind the FU box and this do dad in 1st photo

Set up for FCS center is 3 5/16 to back of fin.

Maybe back a little with the FU box?

I'm sure you'll figure it out.

HA!  No time for fun stuff right now

workin' 7 days a week in my day job!

Wide tails and ACE's rearward placement

ACE can't only speak for himself on the thought.

Me???

Did a series that started with some help from Griffen.

The 1st one was as close as I could get to Greg's "Felix"

fin set up too.

I was begging the riders to go with the 3 in a line.

they liked the quad.

but # 3 Green back to thruster.

I really am butt hurt that.

We all know I can't ride a 9 ft'r these days so..

The "riders" hey had 3 for a while ,eh paid off, now down to "Boy" and newest Chris AKA "Skin hoss" (3rd pix).

They got me to the point of just doing thruster only from groveler up.

Same with the buying public

they only want the logo and "pro level" throw away's"

Sorry up late and maybe too many brews.

Eh,

what are 35 something years since the twin heyday?

You know the thrust'r work...

Keep the stoke!

Oh,

What is with the color?

Know you better.

But right now I'm thinkin'

Mint ice cream with a cheese wrap.. ;-{)=

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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.

www.mattysurfboards.com

Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

thanks, I'm just kinda winging the color as I go, hopefully end up with something that looks cheeful, picked the logo for a little retro flavor.  One more layer of 4 oz. clear on the deck to come, I'll add the lam then.  Then a little touch of red and white when I do the pinlines.  Love color, just can't seem to do a plain vanilla surfboard.

Thanks to all the helpful feedback I have the quad fins layed out where I'm pretty comfortable with it, won't know for sure until I get it out in the water, even then there is stuff that can be tweaked.

As far as the center fin, I'm kinda unsure.  If I go with a F.U. box, I can't get far enough back to match your suggestion for 5th fin.  I don't have a thruster center box in black to match the others, so I have to order one (they are not as deep and so I could get the 5th fin back there with a thruster box), or else put the F.U. box in and go single / sidebites rather than thruster, and 5th fin further up if I even try it.  I completely missed the thruster revolution, so its all new to me.  But I like quads too so far.  Problem is my two quad boards are a bit too much foam for me now that momma has me on a diet, haha!  Don't know if I should sell them or keep em until I get older, and fat again.  As we age we don't know how many sessions we got left in us, so just take each one as a blessing, eh?

Congrats on the new rider, I guess we'll be seeing pics / video of him too soon?  Love the stuff you post up, junior sure can crank that board around.

BTW, regarding work.  I sent you a text message awhile back, never got a response.  Did you get it?  Sorry to hear you're working so much, but gotta pay them bills.  Hope you get some play time soon!  My work is out of town, lots of travel, so it eats up my time without paying much, but its steady for now and in this economy I'm glad to have it, not complaining!  Well, maybe just a little :-)

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mattwho's picture
Joined: 05/12/2014

Eh,

yeah, up late.

Ha, workin' on repairs.

My advice?

Go with the FU set up!!!

Don't miss the thrill of the vee!

If you want'a thruster?

Eh, so what???

You'll be a trend sett'r if you can rip it

or just keep it toyourself and try not to smile!

Diet???

Momma's tryin' too build a stud muffin!

Love your ideas!

Art and function 

Just love the plain wrapper.

Ah, maybe cuz

I grew up on clear boards with black wetsuits

??? Logo

WAY COOL

copywrite?

Last.

Your lam's.

Very good work!!!

Have done a number of epoxy repairs.

getting good but IMHO exacting and I'm changing.

But as I am working I can't wait to go to poly!

BTW, Steve went to part time,

really gonna have to schedule my supply runs.

What a great guy!

Aloha Nui Hoaloha

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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.

www.mattysurfboards.com

Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

more pics - deck glassed with final 4 oz.

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

For a good week or more, most all of the last two pages, its just been the two of us, so there is clearly not any general interest in discussing the stubby build.  So I moved it over to the errors and bugs club, then I don't have to feel bad every time I keep bumping it up with new pics or comments :-)

Anyway, here are the fin boxes set in resin - I normally mask around them, didn't think of it this time until after I got started, oh well.  I don't worry about the extra cant from my V bottom, it just is what it is.

I'm holding off for now on the center box, think I'll order a center plug to match, so I can go thruster or thang.  I could put an F.U. box in, but I just don't see this being a single with the wide tail.  I have other singles that will sometimes spin out on late takeoffs cuz the fin releases when the wave gets sucky.  Probably eliminate the problem with sidebites, but then the quad fins don't really seem properly placed for single sidebites.  Anyway, maybe I'll change my mind and add the single F.U. box, you did say that was your suggestion.  I figure as long as I don't do anything, my options are still open, LOL.

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cbg's picture
cbg
Joined: 03/18/2004

too big of a board to really garner much of my input, but i'm just a long-time lurker anyway.  still, i wanted to communicate that you two aren't the only ones looking.  

once the thread went to bugs and errors and below the radar, it was safe to comment.  isn't it ironic that B&E is a respite from the madness in general discussion?  it's like you had to go to jail in order to meet some decent folks.

nice looking work, as always.

-cbg

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

mattwho wrote:

...We all know I can't ride a 9 ft'r these days so...

If ever there was a legitimate reason to SUP this is it!  Seriously.

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

cbg wrote:

too big of a board to really garner much of my input, but i'm just a long-time lurker anyway.  still, i wanted to communicate that you two aren't the only ones looking.  

once the thread went to bugs and errors and below the radar, it was safe to comment.  isn't it ironic that B&E is a respite from the madness in general discussion?  it's like you had to go to jail in order to meet some decent folks.

nice looking work, as always.

-cbg

Thanks cbg, nice to hear from you!  I'm kinda glad to hear you say that, about size, cuz I keep thinking this thing is too small for me to ride, then I hear comments like yours, and I'm reminded its not really small after all, just might take a little adjustment for me :-)  Ah to be young and nimble again!  Sometimes when I pop up I feel totally spastic, just another of the joys of aging my friend.

Anyway, I do kinda like the atmosphere down here in E&B, more laid back I think.  I used to post more detailed pictures of my build process, but lately I find myself thinking I don't want to have to explain why I do it this way, or defend myself, so I just skip over to the process completed pics, haha.  The pros have a certain mindset, but a self-taught backyarder has another.

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

Leash plug in, both sides hotcoated.  I used a cheater coat on the hotcoat, no fisheye problems like I sometimes get.  "Reinforced hotcoat" per Cooper's video entry into master craftsman competition.

My plan now is to sand the poop out of it from 60 grit to 220 wet, then pinline it, then 220 once more, and final coat.

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

Resin pinlines done.  Few problems due to: A) cheap tape (my fault) and B) rushing things (my fault again). So the red line not so crisp. Anyway, done now, good enough!

 Ready for final coat, hopefully will come out clean and not require much sanding / polishing.

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mattwho's picture
Joined: 05/12/2014

Eh,

#1. Fin box, Probox center. 

I can see what you are thinking.

No shame! 

Don't really know if you experienced the Vee bottom single.

Me? 

The first "short board" went from 9-10 to 7-10 overnight!

"Talk about a revolution"

Only took a week of kooking out to get it wired.

V, mini gun back to V.

Never “spun out”!

That was McTavish at Sunset!

Nat Young @ Honolua is just history now.

Most would say, don’t worry you did not miss much.

I loved the V and got my first legit “brown room” on my 2nd

3rd point right after the flood that changed

Da BU

Deer and tree stumps in the lineup!

Just some punks that timed it and cut school.

Ignoring all the skull and cross bones posted as to contamened water (Horror! Eh, I'm still kicking and don't regret a second)

Plus a mud slide on PCH just as we passed (Cyn’s closed).

My buddy and I had it to ourselves all day!

One of many, many memories!

#2. Sanding.

I don’t know a lot about 100% epoxy.

I’ll lam with epoxy.

Hot or filler Poly

I am concerned however.

? I know you have been at this a long time.

And if my old mind recalls your board(s) are polished.

With poly after sanding coat (another word for it)

I’ll start with 220

However my experience is you’ll never get 60 grit scratches out.

Ah, with poly.

Does (and I don’t know) epoxy  “gum up”  that bad ?

#3. Why not kill this on the general forum and come solely to the dungeon?

EDIT "never mind"

Ha, LMAO+ LOL

The leash plug.

AND I could wind up with egg on my ugly face!

IMHO less stress with bar @90 of stringer.

Diggin' the pin lines!!!

Over….

Aloha Nui Hoaloha

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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.

www.mattysurfboards.com

Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

Hi ya Matty, guess the spin out at takeoff could be operator error, for sure, but its disconcerting, esp in L.A. waters where you really have to work it to get a takeoff slot on a set wave in the midst of the crowd, and to have your tail blow out on takeoff is something you really want to avoid.  My 7-4 has a pretty wide tail, but seems to hang in there better in those situations, I'm guessing its the rail fins.  V-bottom doesn't even enter into that discussion, just comparing single fins to rail fins.  As funny as it may sound to you, I'm completely new to the tri-fin setup, so still adjusting to it.  I do like the speed and looseness of my thruster, in comparison to my singles.

Yeah, 100% epoxy, I don't use poly resin anymore.  Combining them is do-able, but they flex differently, so asking for troubles down the road, IMO.  To be honest, I don't really even like the idea of using floor sealer or anything from a rattle can over epoxy.  I tried poly gloss over epoxy, and got a good finish, but just don't do it anymore.  I'm a self-taught backyarder, so I don't like to say too much, cuz I'm not in a position to teach anyone, I just find ways that work for me, and go with it.  Epoxy can be finicky, but I'm finding there are work-arounds, like the cheater coat.  After 22 boards I'm still in the throes of the learning curve with epoxy.  You're right on about the 60 grit scratches, comes from being in a hurry to get this one finished.  So 120 would have been a better starting point.  The RR epoxy I use does not gum up at all, unless you sand too soon.

Your leash plug comment is the opposite of what I read in an old thread on the subject (I couldn't find that old thread, but here's another that's chock full of entertaining blather on the subject... http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/lightning-bolt-tom-eberly-surfboard-help).  Hopefully I'll never have to find out!  My main concern was making sure I didn't get in the way of the rear fin box if I decide to put one in.

Funny too that you were going to suggest moving this to the "dungeon", and noteworthy that one poster commented that he felt more inclined to comment now that it was out of the main folder.  I hate repeatedly bumping a thread up to the top every time I post, when I can clearly see there is little to no interest in a general discussion, so I'm definitely more comfortable with having it here, and I just post my updates as they come.

The board is finished for all intents and purposes, I put the final coat on thin, so all I have to do is hit it with some 600 grit to take the little nits out.  Not a showroom finish, but good enough I won't be embarrassed taking it to the beach.  I may add another fin box later.  I'll try to follow up with some beach shots and ride report (sorry, no one to take surfing shots for me).  \

Thanks for any and all who have read the thread through to this point!

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mattwho's picture
Joined: 05/12/2014

Good STUFF!

Me? 

More like reverb than Barnfield.

Just my experience.

Testing (to my limit) and fixing others boo boo's.

Boy likes his on the left (goofy foot).

Never big on foam only

So far so good...

Spied your work space.

You can learn a lot observing other things than the board.

Scales check!

Pencil sharpener, check

Roller, check

Is that a basket, bug zapper or heater? HA

H2O???? Hot batch wipe down?

Your lam jobs are very good.

And shaping also very good.

As if I'm a pro!

Always small time and if you wanted one of mine

You got a board that worked great

Just not pretty.

Last year I speculated and made some for the local shop.

What a bitch.

And a big challenge!

Christmas batch

The best finish quality stick is still in the rack.

WTF?

Maybe the ugliness stands out compared to the competitons perfection.

Started really trying with this last batch of R&D boards

Made Dustin 6

Rider X 1

Skin Hoss 3

All done to shop finish

Hey,

Only three problems

Pin lines, (you rock!)

Aramid fiber laps

Blank boo boo’s

To start

Removed my old vac set up

Put in a single arm.

Yeah and my bay has a vaulted lid.

Not so EZ.

Then the vac collector set up on the Skill broke.

Put the dust shoot on

Along with a respirator.

Push the vac arm over.

And WOW really gave my sprit a lift!

No whacking the blank on the vac

Unencumbered freedom!

Made a few new tools and a mess!

Oh and my laundry, Momma isn’t happy

(Wish I still had my Soft tail)

Outline planner w/ 90 degree table

And a “rail maker”

Planner, a little 40, 150, 220

Not even the Micro blade, serious swelling head.

And for shits and giggles I divorced Fred!

Boards work and are pretty.

Back to observation.

Hate to call it out

But I can see scratches under the sanding coat

Laps?

Small die grinder I use 40

Lightly to knock off da bumps

And a sander w/ 150 to true up my rails still shaping, yeah

UV cure poly/acrylic w/ MEKP (I glass at night) set in Sun and rotated @ 5 min intervals.

Sands well and a head start in curing.

On “polish” boards I have been lucky with the hot coat.

220, 320, touch up w/ acrylic spray, 400, 600, #2 surfboard polish

I’m thinking epoxy cured up would be the same.

EDIT I mean polished..

Back in the Clark shut down I freaked out and bought a CI 7-6 M13 and Rusty 8-6 Desert Island the Merrick good, the Rusty Crap I did not like the flex!

Once I got back sold them both for more than I spent so there is value in durability.

So Sorry I just a lost old Poly soul

Since I was a punk I have handled some dangerous stuff

And like a few others I have cautioned not to cremate me as it may burn the joint down.

Day job is keeping me fit, 9 days straight 12 hr. days so far (at least the test riders are getting wet) Got a few EDIT "jobs" hooked up and working ‘em to the gaff, if I get ‘em on deck I’ll be calling the boys.

Over…

Eh (photo) I am looking forward to a RIDE report

Every detail, excep drop in's

Maybe a Charle Manson mask complete with swasika.

Aloha Nui Hoaloha

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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.

www.mattysurfboards.com

Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

Hey Matty thanks!

As far as installing leash cups - hard for me to imagine parallel to stringer could be weaker than foam only - I have done them all ways, parallel to stringer, perpendicular to stringer, foam only, never had a problem yet. I've broke leashes but the cup stayed solid. I use the small ones, I think that probably helps, harder to bend a short piece of metal than a long one.

Don't look at my workspace too close - its a mess! That basket thing is some doohicky my wife wants me to fix, I told her don't put that stuff in my shop, but does she listen? My mind blocks that stuff out, I don't even see it, haha. I told her get me some distilled water for mixing with spackle on my eps blank, she got me the bonus size LOL. Which is OK, I generally keep water in there anyway, for wetsanding.

Kensurf made some spec boards for his local shop, absolute beauties, resin tint, pinlines, high gloss, flawless finish, the whole shebang. They never sold, or took an awful long time if they did, while the Taiwan boards with a logo jumped off the shelves - he got discouraged over the whole thing. I think that's one of the factors in him retiring from board building. Me, I just build for myself. No specs. No team riders (not that I don't wish I had some!). Just little old me. It keeps things simple that way, although I do have an awful lot of boards, haha.

Cool that you did some upgrades to your shop, I need to go in and get mine clean and organized better.

I don't know about "scratches under the sanding coat", you'll have to show me when we meet up again. All my boards are hand sanded, no power sanding, and usually little or no polishing. I guess someday I'll get motivated to polish 'em up, but for now, good enough to ride is what I get.

BTW I texted you some contact info for a guy who might be a good hand to help out on your projects, did you get it OK?

Meanwhile, you need to take some time off and let the kid sweat the late nights, he's the one with a new mouth to feed LOL. You and I been there done that.

Took it to the beach today before work and got some nice beach shots, but right now I'm on my mom's computer and it won't let me add a file, and it won't let me upload to flickr. And of course, no waves today!

Nice pool shot of the Fowler!

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mattwho's picture
Joined: 05/12/2014

Yeah got the text.

Thanks!

In my cryptic way that's what I meant.

"Day job is keeping me fit, 9 days straight 12 hr. days so far (at least the test riders are getting wet) Got a few EDIT "jobs" hooked up and working ‘em to the gaff, if I get ‘em on deck I’ll be calling the boys."

Just been crazy.

Hard for me to let go..

Boy got his rope in a knot.

Just runnin' and gunnin'

Thing is flyin' straight and level for now.

Now back to baiting hooks.

Plenty fish and

I'm not letting off the throttle!

I really, no BS love this board.

#1 outline

And yeah that tail is wide!

Kinda reminds me of the early twins.

More specifically

Corky Carroll's "Space Sticks"

Love to know more on your fin set up...

Hat's off 2 U!

Quad commitment Maximus.

Bravo!!!

Upon my resurrection to this wacky surfboard world.

I felt more comfortable making LB's

Just got to a point of dread

Old (HA!)  Grey Beards bitchin' me out

Cuz they can't surf and flat ass lied to me.

Ya know I manipulated boy with HPLB's

Ah "thruster Boy"

The Quad is wide open!

Dig the Twinzer twists and all kinda stuff.

So my path started @ the "accepted" set up.

"Stock" and I realize a ton of work went into it.

However

Before I ramble on

This has ALWAYS been a sport supported by the thinkers

Not afraid to fail

Like Joe Quigg for God sake.

Riders mine and others speak

And my take, (God knows I can only watch).

The problem is the transition from rail to rail.

And this probably will not apply to folk

Who, givin’ a wave sure don’t want to waste it

With a rip off the bottom and snap (or worse) at the lip.

Basically think about fin engagement and release with the typical quad…

Between two things

I heard (and really listened), saw and believe are true.

As you see in these photo’s

My set up @ this time!

Was rears closer together and less cant.

Have been more successful than I really deserved.

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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.

www.mattysurfboards.com

Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

If the board works for me I will post up all the fin details. If it's a dog, or if I just can't ride a board this small anymore, I'll probably let the thread fade away, or add that center box and keep trying.  I just don't want to post up details wihout knowing first if the info is any good :-)

No waves again today. I stuck some different fins in it last night, just cuz I have these von sol (iirc) quad fins I've never used.

Quads appealed to me cuz I used to love riding my twin keel wide tail fish, people call it two dimensional surfing, skatey but it was fun.  I was hoping to capture some of that when I built the swallowtail wing quad, and I did.  This board is closer in size and planshape to my old twin fin fish back in the day, hope it has a little of that pizazz too!  I almost made this a fish, but then decided to try something a little different.

Just building boards for myself, I'm probably not as adventurous / experimental as you.  Because I'm aging, be sixty in a matter of weeks, as opposed to your younger more skilled and ambitious team riders.  To be honest, there are days I don't feel like paddling out, but I do anyway just to stay in the game, but then I always end up getting some waves and being stoked.

Like this one, if I see a board I want to build, I draw my own template, and shape it to the best of my knowledge and ability.  A lot of times I'll ask for input here, and I'm grateful for any pointers, or encouragement and suggestions I get.

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mattwho's picture
Joined: 05/12/2014

Have Confidence in your fin set up “young man”

IMHO there is nothing wrong or cause for doubt!

Hey, I grew up and surfed with some talented guys.

And I’ll tell you this some of these guys could pick up a board

Just bad mouth it and then paddle out.

“POS”!

Simply negative vibes…

I just tuned that shit out

And got the best out of those POS’

POSITIVE thoughts only!

Or (gezz) “Good vibrations.

“Sonny” your set up pop’s in my mind like this.

I am thinking half way decent point surf, eh Wensday.

Kinda down the line or “Hall Ass”

Picking off sections.

I know you can connect the dots!

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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.

www.mattysurfboards.com

Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

OK, nothing wrong with some positivity!  There were some small little peelers today, so I paddled out.  Shallow, breaking over rocks, kinda sketchy, but I just had to get this wet.  Not much push in the little waves, but the good news (for me) is that I can paddle it fine, it catch waves fine, and I can pop up fine, so those were three areas of concern that can be checked off.  Fins seem to work good too, although need some better waves to really make any kind of determination.

The beach photos are a few days ago, didn't paddle out that day, just too small.  Then I changed fins, so the red Von Sol fins are the ones I tried, haven't used the white fins in the photos.  

The diagram shows my fin layout, rears toed 3/16" over 4", fronts towed 1/4" over 4", fronts canted 6 degrees, rears canted 4 degrees, although I can change that with ProBox inserts.  And the V actually adds a little more cant than the number on the inserts.

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mattwho's picture
Joined: 05/12/2014

A coupl'a things, yeah?

Funny about the Vee and cant.

I have the same trouble only reversed.

The Pro box helps dial em in???

Your toe?

1/4" front

3/16" rear?

As to fins Boy likes

fronts inside foil asymetric

and 60/40 foil rear.

Plan on late Tuesday Early Wensday.

Make time.

Positive

like the too much stoke, test ride.

And I know you know 

what rocks can do to fin systems!

And last.

Your board actually looks better at the beach.

You?

Almost as ugly as me....

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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.

www.mattysurfboards.com

Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

Funny.  Yeah thanks I corrected the fin cant description, the fronts 1/4" rears 3/16".  I have tore fins right out at this spot, more than once!  The rocks are right there, on a small day at low tide if you don't stay high in the wave you will hit them.  Tues / Wed. swell coming?  Really I'm tickled pink to be riding a 6-7, would have never made this board if it wasn't for the free blank laying around.  Not too long ago I was riding 9 foot boards every day.  Who knew?  Glad I shaped this up now.  Feels funny paddling for a wave with no board in front of me, haha.

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