I refused to do a delam repair for a knee paddler. I've worked on his boards in the past. He did not like me saying NO. He begged me to no end to fix his board. I said no.
Thank god he is not gay because if it was a cake instaed of a surfboard I would be ruined.......
I need the freedom to refuse work. So do Blank Cutters...... take it or leave it.....move on.
I was surfing on a wave on an old 7'10" board in Gloucester, MA when it shook violently up and down and disintegrated under my feet. I took the board home and fixed the delam but I got the rocker a tiny bit wrong (ouch!). The rocker is now a little flatter than originally. The foam had a crack in the middle and it makes the board flatter but I didn't notice. So now I will have to reshape the middle of the board some day when I can work up the guts.
I know how you feel - should you gorilla glue or pour foam or cabosil or whatever to fill in the delamination before glassing again? Or some kind of putty. You have to know the tricks. I don't use pour foam because it's expensive so I will try gorilla glue on a longboard repair that's waiting for me. I think the gorilla glue should expand nicely into the giant, soft-ball size void, then I surform it back to the shape of the deck and close up the glass, and go surfing, although I don't longboard anymore. Maybe I'll just hang the board back up from the ceiling.
But I WOULD fix the knee-paddlers delamination - I would just make sure I charged him enough money - like $75 or something, less if it's a small job, easy to do. It wouldn't bother me to do it - I would just do my best and hope. The guy's useless kneeboard can't get any worse than your repairs to it.
I'm not really that worried about him refusing the job, just surprised.
stingray wrote:
I refused to do a delam repair for a knee paddler. I've worked on his boards in the past. He did not like me saying NO. He begged me to no end to fix his board. I said no.
Thank god he is not gay because if it was a cake instaed of a surfboard I would be ruined.......
I need the freedom to refuse work. So do Blank Cutters...... take it or leave it.....move on.
Last night I investigated the problem on my computer and discovered that Shape3d has a problem if you import a board that has a large number of cross-sections - the apex control-points become normal and thus you would have to change them back one by one.
The final answer to it must wait since I need to answer the "why", not just the "how". But briefly:
My board 183 and 184 each had about 20 cross-sections since I run a method that added about 13 or 14 cross-sections to them (1 every 6" over-curve is how I do that). I did this simply to make it easier if I wanted to make a wooden version of the board. But the CNC guy who I first requested to cut the boards sent me back a Shape3d file that had "lost" it's apices, meaning the Shape3d program did not recognize the points as apices even though they stuck out the most on the rail. So I "investigated" it crudely by simply deleting all of the 13 or 14 cross-sections and reread the subsequent file into Shape3d Lite and it worked fine. What I have NOT done, is to see why this happened. And does it have something to do with my custom BoardCAD method and would it also happen if I put the cross-sections in by using the Insert Cross Section command (one at a time). Whatever it is, I don't think it's a serious problem, and since I'm busy, I haven't yet fully researched the problem. But in a day or two, I'll have the answer. I just installed versions 2.1 and 3.0.1 of BoardCAD on a new machine and I can now compile all three versions 1.1a, 2.1, and 3.01, and I can run Jython scripts. So a little thing like an import problem doesn't really interest me too much, and I pretty much assume it won't faze me when I get to it. The CNC machine might make a smoother blank with only 6 or 7 cross-sections anyway. But frankly, I don't think it should matter how many cross-sections you have. The blank should cut properly. But there can be little real-world issues and trade-offs that we accept for a day or a month, only to fix them later.
greggriffin wrote:
silmarzio wrote:
Last night I investigated the problem on my computer and discovered that Shape3d has a problem if you import a board that has a large number of cross-sections - the apex control-points become normal and thus you would have to change them back one by one.
First thing you should or rather *should not* do is blast someone's business online.
That's chicken$#it imo.
So the guy doesn't want to cut your boards. Move on.
No law saying he has to. It's fully his decision.
Grow up while you're at it. Posting this garbage on a public forum is, again, chicken$#it.
Why is this "chicken$#it"??
Not saying I'm on anyone's side here, but as far as I can tell, he's not 'blasting' or accusing anyone of anything other than ruining his day by turning his business away. Why is it wrong to post about the experience?
Just asking, cuz it didn't strike me that way at all. Seems (to me) like a lot of good answers and insights come from an open discussion like this.
First thing you should or rather *should not* do is blast someone's business online.
That's chicken$#it imo.
So the guy doesn't want to cut your boards. Move on.
No law saying he has to. It's fully his decision.
Grow up while you're at it. Posting this garbage on a public forum is, again, chicken$#it.
Why is this "chicken$#it"??
Not saying I'm on anyone's side here, but as far as I can tell, he's not 'blasting' or accusing anyone of anything other than ruining his day by turning his business away. Why is it wrong to post about the experience?
Just asking, cuz it didn't strike me that way at all. Seems (to me) like a lot of good answers and insights come from an open discussion like this.
Original poster is obviously unhappy with how he was treated by the shop. OP has brought up what *may* very well be legitimate questions BUT, they are questions that he should be discussing with the shop/s not perfect strangers on the internets. *IF* he decides to ask these questions to complete strangers (hopefully AFTER discussing them with the shop first) on the internets, imo, he should NOT have mentioned names of businesses/people he is not happy with. How hard would it have been to keep this thread anonymous? There is absolutely NO positive reason for the shop's names to be included in this discussion.
The OP tells how even though he was "nice enough to fix the problems with the files, the shop wouldn't cut them and he didn't "think he should act like that."... Only hearing the OP's side of the story here is bad press for the shop. Period. The shop owner is not here to explain why he didn't want to cut the boards and he could very well have a legitimate answer to that BUT, we don't get to hear his side, we only hear the OP's BIASED side of the story.
The OP goes further to imply that the shop owner might have been made an enemy of his? Seriously? Either there is some serious back story to this that we are not getting or the OP is just really paranoid. Either way, the OP mentioned both the shop's names for a reason.
OK, I get that you feel it would have been better to keep it anonymous. I won't argue that he could have told his story without the names, but just not seeing it in as harsh a light as all that. Jim mentioned the name of his 'shop of frustration' as well, I'm totally OK with that, just telling it like it is, IMO. Yeah sure, there is always back story, you have to read between the lines. I don't think the o.p. accomplished any harm to names mentioned, hard to say if any was intended, but I lean toward giving the benefit of the doubt. I do business with Shaper's Supply on a regular basis, don't know the other guy but wouldn't hesitate to use him if I had a reason, nothing o.p. said in any way discourages me from using either. At least I've been forewarned, as a general rule the little one-off guy doesn't go to the top of the list, and make sure you have good files! Realities of the surfboard world. Like Bill and Jim, I'm a hand shaper all the way, so its all academic to me at this point.
"I am not interested in this project. Thank you for your consideration."
AKA You can't polish a turd.
The trick for many is being able to spot a problem before you take on the job.
Not saying your board is a piece of crap.
Over the years, I've had many people walk into the shop with a board that is visibly messed up. Lack of skil, knowedge or both. "This is my first shape". Or it could be their 100 th.
"Could you fix it for me"?
I politely tell them, it would take more time fixing it than shaping one from scratch.
Chasing bumps is the worst.
Time=Money.
This is probably the case here.
Fix messed up files, and hope no blanks are ruined in the process.
Or cut blanks with proper files.
In Oceanside, we have no less than 20 shaping machines.
Every one has a dusty corner filled with miss-cuts.
Willing to bet money the files were bad or the incorrect blank was used.
Today, everyone thinks that a board designed on a computer is perfect.
But looking at a board that is 6" tall on a computer screen is not the same thing as real size.
Sometimes it is "Surprise,Surprise" when they get cut.
Sounds like the machine guy has seen this before and smartly opted out.
I refused to do a delam repair for a knee paddler. I've worked on his boards in the past. He did not like me saying NO. He begged me to no end to fix his board. I said no.
Thank god he is not gay because if it was a cake instaed of a surfboard I would be ruined.......
I need the freedom to refuse work. So do Blank Cutters...... take it or leave it.....move on.
I was surfing on a wave on an old 7'10" board in Gloucester, MA when it shook violently up and down and disintegrated under my feet. I took the board home and fixed the delam but I got the rocker a tiny bit wrong (ouch!). The rocker is now a little flatter than originally. The foam had a crack in the middle and it makes the board flatter but I didn't notice. So now I will have to reshape the middle of the board some day when I can work up the guts.
I know how you feel - should you gorilla glue or pour foam or cabosil or whatever to fill in the delamination before glassing again? Or some kind of putty. You have to know the tricks. I don't use pour foam because it's expensive so I will try gorilla glue on a longboard repair that's waiting for me. I think the gorilla glue should expand nicely into the giant, soft-ball size void, then I surform it back to the shape of the deck and close up the glass, and go surfing, although I don't longboard anymore. Maybe I'll just hang the board back up from the ceiling.
But I WOULD fix the knee-paddlers delamination - I would just make sure I charged him enough money - like $75 or something, less if it's a small job, easy to do. It wouldn't bother me to do it - I would just do my best and hope. The guy's useless kneeboard can't get any worse than your repairs to it.
I'm not really that worried about him refusing the job, just surprised.
Could the original poster tell us more about himself? Age and how many boards shaped, designed, glassed, whatever. Might help us understand better.
Explain this please
To partially answer Gregg's question:
The final answer to it must wait since I need to answer the "why", not just the "how". But briefly:
My board 183 and 184 each had about 20 cross-sections since I run a method that added about 13 or 14 cross-sections to them (1 every 6" over-curve is how I do that). I did this simply to make it easier if I wanted to make a wooden version of the board. But the CNC guy who I first requested to cut the boards sent me back a Shape3d file that had "lost" it's apices, meaning the Shape3d program did not recognize the points as apices even though they stuck out the most on the rail. So I "investigated" it crudely by simply deleting all of the 13 or 14 cross-sections and reread the subsequent file into Shape3d Lite and it worked fine. What I have NOT done, is to see why this happened. And does it have something to do with my custom BoardCAD method and would it also happen if I put the cross-sections in by using the Insert Cross Section command (one at a time). Whatever it is, I don't think it's a serious problem, and since I'm busy, I haven't yet fully researched the problem. But in a day or two, I'll have the answer. I just installed versions 2.1 and 3.0.1 of BoardCAD on a new machine and I can now compile all three versions 1.1a, 2.1, and 3.01, and I can run Jython scripts. So a little thing like an import problem doesn't really interest me too much, and I pretty much assume it won't faze me when I get to it. The CNC machine might make a smoother blank with only 6 or 7 cross-sections anyway. But frankly, I don't think it should matter how many cross-sections you have. The blank should cut properly. But there can be little real-world issues and trade-offs that we accept for a day or a month, only to fix them later.
As you said you are busy and have limited time .
Most cutting services are just that , cutting services cutting functional files daily - no fixing .
Extra work for that service means an extra charge or just saying its not worth it .
Being busy with limited time I think you would do the same in your business.
Glassers charge extra for extra and refuse to do some things all the time .
Why is this "chicken$#it"??
Not saying I'm on anyone's side here, but as far as I can tell, he's not 'blasting' or accusing anyone of anything other than ruining his day by turning his business away. Why is it wrong to post about the experience?
Just asking, cuz it didn't strike me that way at all. Seems (to me) like a lot of good answers and insights come from an open discussion like this.
Original poster is obviously unhappy with how he was treated by the shop. OP has brought up what *may* very well be legitimate questions BUT, they are questions that he should be discussing with the shop/s not perfect strangers on the internets. *IF* he decides to ask these questions to complete strangers (hopefully AFTER discussing them with the shop first) on the internets, imo, he should NOT have mentioned names of businesses/people he is not happy with. How hard would it have been to keep this thread anonymous? There is absolutely NO positive reason for the shop's names to be included in this discussion.
The OP tells how even though he was "nice enough to fix the problems with the files, the shop wouldn't cut them and he didn't "think he should act like that."... Only hearing the OP's side of the story here is bad press for the shop. Period. The shop owner is not here to explain why he didn't want to cut the boards and he could very well have a legitimate answer to that BUT, we don't get to hear his side, we only hear the OP's BIASED side of the story.
The OP goes further to imply that the shop owner might have been made an enemy of his? Seriously? Either there is some serious back story to this that we are not getting or the OP is just really paranoid. Either way, the OP mentioned both the shop's names for a reason.
Chicken$#!t
OK, I get that you feel it would have been better to keep it anonymous. I won't argue that he could have told his story without the names, but just not seeing it in as harsh a light as all that. Jim mentioned the name of his 'shop of frustration' as well, I'm totally OK with that, just telling it like it is, IMO. Yeah sure, there is always back story, you have to read between the lines. I don't think the o.p. accomplished any harm to names mentioned, hard to say if any was intended, but I lean toward giving the benefit of the doubt. I do business with Shaper's Supply on a regular basis, don't know the other guy but wouldn't hesitate to use him if I had a reason, nothing o.p. said in any way discourages me from using either. At least I've been forewarned, as a general rule the little one-off guy doesn't go to the top of the list, and make sure you have good files! Realities of the surfboard world. Like Bill and Jim, I'm a hand shaper all the way, so its all academic to me at this point.
Barry Snyder
Surfboards made by hand. Not machine.
http://barrysnyderdesigns.com
Instagram @barrysnyderdesigns
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