the old man and the sea

Awesome work on that step up for Dustin, looking fine!  I'll try to get some more specifics on a ride report for the 8-8, but so far easy into the waves, fast down the line, and holds well in steep sections.  I haven't run it with my good quads yet, and am still a bit tenuous as I always am with a new board, but will eventually spend some quality time with it.  Right now I'm still in the honeymoon stage with my new Gordita, and very stoked.  Ran it with 5 fins tonight and had a blast, who knew?

I'm feeling so confident with this thing I'm almost ready to try shaping a 6-10.  That would be so awesome for me, if I could shape a 6-10 I could actually ride.  Man, I would almost want to throw a party for that!

Probably stay with the same big boy blank I used for the 7-2 Gordita, pull in the nose just a little, pull in the tail just a little, squash instead of bat, add a tiny bit more rocker just because (even 'tho Gordita rocker working great), keep it fat and sassy like Gordita, rail channels and concave deck again because I'm so happy with that arrangement.  I have drawn it a hundred different ways (well, a lot of different ways), and I have a drawing in front of me that looks just right to my eyes.

I'm thinking maybe quad option and single fin, thruster just doesn't seem to appeal to me like quad and singles.  Must be that old school blood in my veins (do you have iron poor tired blood....?)

Thanks all for keeping this thread alive, so stoked to have a venue to pursue / discuss the design of surfboards for the senior years, its taken years off my surfing!

BTW, just read this insane passage in the Miki Dora biography A Few Perfect Waves, where he, and another guy who was out, describe Miki getting the ride of his life at J-Bay so. Africa, at 64 years old!!!

Ha yeah, I don't really think of it like that, but don't deny it either. This one has been in my head for awhile, long before the last board, just keep mentally refining it.  Template shape probably related to my 7-6 green frog board of a few years back.

For some time I have wanted to make a short board (under 7') that I could ride, you know, comfortably - even in a crowded lineup. The stubby was an attempt, but I wasn't feeling the love on that one. Happy to have the 8-8 in its stead.

But the Gordita at 7-2 has given me the confidence that maybe I could do it after all. Just drop 4" in length, make a few changes, but keep a lot of the features that make it such a good paddler / wave catcher.

To be honest, I like the rail channels so much I can't really envision making a board without them at this point.

Eventually I plan to take a break from shaping, and focus on making and trying various fin shapes and configurations with the boards I have. But not quite yet, lol.

Unfortunately, most my boards are outside the box and would be difficult to sell. And a lot of them I like and ride, part of my quiver I'm not interested in parting with. So I find the sell em to make room for more doesn't fit so well for me. Meaning at some point I reach critical mass, and have to quit.

I'm not so enamored with knifey rails as a "must". I like them, they do work well, but right now it's popular to praise them as the only performance shape out there, I'm more open to thicker rails, and believe they can work very well also.

Dustin's board is looking good, sounds like he'll be testing it in some heavy stuff before long. Curious to see how he likes the thicker shape with more volume.

BTW, I gotta ask, am I the only one who finds it significant that Miki Dora, self proclaimed "king of Malibu", who spent a lifetime traveling the globe in search of perfect waves, got the ultimate ride of his life at age 64?

haha yeah, I just thought it worth noting that his best wave he was well into his sixties, so many things decline after 50, apparently not the ability to catch and ride great waves.  To me that was interesting.

As far as the rest, well, he was a charismatic and adventurous guy, but with a very confused or maybe just unorthodox moral compass. Did seem to mellow somewhat in his senior years.

OK, I'll wander off a bit on this tangent (Dora), having just finished the Perfect Waves biography. He was a talented and troubled soul, for sure. Rascal seems like an appropriate term for his youthful antics, but he became more sinister in his crimes as he matured. In old age, however, he seemed to question / regret some of his life choices, and to try to make amends to some of his victims. He forged more meaningful relationships. Through it all, the love of surfing, and the talent remained and never faltered.

As I came to know him through the biography (I don't have that history at the 'bu like you, only the photos films and stuff I read in Surfer mag over the years), I could feel for his pain of childhood rejection and abuse, his moral and religious confusion, his hatred of the things he saw (more clearly than others) that were happening to society and the environment, his love of nature and of simple people of the land, and his puzzlement and conflict at the adulation he received, fostered, loved, hated, but never understood.

He couldn't be molded to society's expectations even if he tried, which he didn't. He had style and flamboyance and a wicked sense of humor.  But he hurt and took advantage of a lot of people who tried to befriend and help him, he burned bridges relentlessy without forethought or remorse, his pathological addiction to lying and stealing brought a lot of pain and and tribulation and loneliness and unhappiness on himself and others. A really gifted but conflicted soul with a wild and adventurous spirit, maybe even a bit of a genius, who seemed to find a bit of inner peace only as his approaching death began to soften those defenses hardened over a lifetime.

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The new board looks great, hope Dustin finds it the perfect El Nino sled! And inspiration will come when and how it comes, sometimes its good to step away and come back later with a fresh perspective.

I can't claim to being a convert, exactly, or to knowing what it is I might be converted to, haha, after two sessions on my hplb, but I already find myself making a mental note to go over the shape with a fine tooth comb to see just what exactly you did there. It has a different feel to it, and will take me awhile to process, but the first and most obvious impression is the speed. It has some stuff going on, for sure!

Took the Banana Boat out today, had a red letter session,which for me means three good set waves and didn't get snaked on one, ha!  I changed the inserts to 6 degrees on the quad fronts, hard to say for sure that it was an improvement, but I can say that it felt good on the wave face anyway.  I need to try my high dollar FCS quads on this board, but so far the cheapie composites are doing a good job.

Hope to get some pics, saw my photog buddy when I got out, and he said he got shots of the last wave, so hoping for the best.  Would have taken the Gordita out, but had some crap in the back of my truck, wanted to put the board up on my rack, and it barely spans my lumber rack which is 7', so I grabbed the BB instead.  So fun!  Hope the Hulk and the Widget are providing good rides through this el nino winter, love to see more pics or hear ride reports. 

Also love to hear from anybody else building boards for older guys / gals, or folks with special needs, and what they are finding works for them.  Still meditating on whether to try a 6-10 or not, and if so, what fin setup to go with. Thinking I might like to try a 5 finner. 

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Here's a Christian Fletcher video, showing his new shapes, outside the box stuff, step-rails and concave decks but no rail channels.  And another one, a step-deck video GG posted, both of these are from the Surfermag forum

​Yeah, the video makes that point, no one claiming its anything new, its a retro thing that was requested by a customer, also shows the customer having fun with it in small surf.  The thing that I find interesting in the light of this thread topic is the fun factor associated with the extra foam.

Good point, the aesthetics generally don't appeal to me, but that particular board looked pretty good, I think because that step-deck profile is normally seen on longboards and that was a transition era midlength planshape, not unlike the Bruce Fowler planshapes. 

I wondered if anyone would notice I put the two videos together, because the other video showed a very different approach to the same thing (increased foam management via stepped up deck volume), and had C. Fletcher saying 'if you're not catching waves you're not surfing so you gotta have something that paddles, and we're not getting any younger', haha.  He looked like he was having fun too.  His rail bump / concave deck combo looked a lot like Stretch's skate-deck boards without the rail channels. 

Had the 8-8 out in some really small stuff the other day before the swell hit, lots of fun when I could find a little pocket with push.

Thanks- I've made a few, just shaped wood then several layers of glass, probably stick with the same m.o. Kinda crude (you have a nice setup there), but gets the job done.

Still pondering which fin setup to go with.

Check out this video.  I pay close attention to what this guy does and says.  This video is priceless.  And I love the way he talks, so low-key and down home, you gotta love the guy. 

But the thing that caught my attention, notice what he's doing to give Nathan paddle power to go for the monster waves.  This is the board Nathan was on in the Titans of Mavericks contest.  You'll never catch me out in those waves, but paddle power is something that I'm after too, for reasons of my own.  The man says "Everybody's trying to paddle faster, paddle longer..."

And as a bonus, he also describes the deck and especially, the bottom contours on his gun, and even runs a straightedge down it, for the camera.  Here's a guy who's not hoarding his secret sauce, but willing to share. 

Anyway, that's a side point, the main issue here for the sake of this thread is what he's doing for paddle power.  BTW, Nathan didn't win it on this board, but the winner was also riding a Stretch gun.  Be interesting to study the winning board, and also hear Nathan's feedback on this monster.

Nathan Fletcher's 2015/16 Buzz Gun Quiver from Stretch Boards on Vimeo.

​Cool!  Like Rich, I'm ususally a dawn patroller, in a white F-150 with lumber rack.  This week I haven't left the house 'tho, sick with the flu.

I don't know his exact age at present, but an article in 2014 referred to him as 57 years old. 

Interesting surfboard, interesting surfing, looks like J Bay to me.  The board is large, in the 9' range I would say.  At a couple points they show the board where he's added another foot or so to the tail.  Plenty of volume, deck looks pretty flat like he's carrying the volume all the way out, then in a few shots it looks like there might be a bump at the rails.  Rocker seems fairly "relaxed".

Finless.

The man & the sea. from Andrew Kaineder on Vimeo.

Hi Blaircafe it was a pleasure to meet you officially, and hear a bit of the backstory on your wood board - it looks awesome!  Funny that we had talked and I just never put two and two together, ha!  Randy hooked me up with these nice sequence shots...

Rode my Golden Standard the other day.  I've been on quads for awhile now, the Gordita and the Banana Boat, but I wanted to switch things up a bit, so I took the single fin out.  And guess what, my longtime favorite - I didn't like it!  Took my Wing Squad (quad) out next couple days, and had a blast.  Go figure.

Its a gray zone, seeking performance shapes for older guys.  More volume?  More length?  More width?  More rocker?  Less rocker?  Hard to pinpoint what exactly makes a  board work for older guys, and its not the same for everyone.  Seems like most older guys just gravitate to longboards, which is ok too, I like my longboards but honestly don't have a lot of longboard skills, but it wouldn't hurt me to work on them.

Talked to Hide (he's Asian, pronounced E-day) today, local ripper, age 60, he's riding a 5-10 Roberts!  I told him he was giving me an inferiority complex!  Another guy my age, Gary, was out there on a 10 footer!  (he is admittedly a big guy 'tho).  So at the end of the day, I'm trying to find what works for me.  And I don't help matters by constantly switching up my ride.  Lately I've been on my 9' glider, since I put the widowmaker sidebites in I've been wanting to see how it goes.

After seeing Hide on his little shortboard, maybe I'll go back to riding my 7-2 Gordita, or my 7-4 thruster.

Here is a picture of me on my Gordita, the picture in sequence before my (current) avatar pic.  I was still pretty unfamiliar / uncomfortable with the board, one of my first few times out on it.  You can see I'm standing too far back, I knew that when I took the drop, I could feel that I was, but its really clear in the pic.  It needs to be ridden further forward, the volume distribution etc. is really designed to be ridden more centered, although it took that drop just fine.  But like I say, it was still very new to me at the time of this pic, so I've been improving over time, but haven't ridden it much in the last month or so.

I kinda envy guys like Hide and Gary, they have like 2 or 3 boards and they are always on one of their regular boards.  Me, I have like 20 plus boards and the shaper / designer in me cannot be content to stick to one or two, I'm always changing things up because I'm trying to learn how different designs surf differently.  I feel it does hurt my surfing a little in the short run, maybe not so much in the long run.  I have paddled out in some epic surf with a new board, and wished I had one of my old regulars when its pumping and crowded / aggro like that.  The day pictured was one such day.

My current thinking for my next shape is going with a comparable thickness /rail / deck as the gordita, but a little shorter and narrower, and maybe a twin fin or twinzer quad. Not sure on the fins, but wanting to try something different. Even tho quads are my current favorite setup.

No, not at all!  I love the 8-8, it's in getting some dings repaired right now.  That thing is a speed demon, for sure!

However, you gotta know I would trade in a heartbeat for the Hulk, cuz I fell in love with that beast the minute I laid eyes on it! Either way I'm a happy camper, but let me know if you're serious about parting with the Hulk.  Heck, I'd be happy even with a temporary trade, just to get some face time on the hulk!

I think the problem on that wave is that just coming off the Banana Boat, I was used to a certain amount of board in front of me, and I just went with it by reflex.  

And it's funny you say more length would not hurt, I was thinking maybe I went a bit too long on it, lol. Although like I say, I got it much more wired after several sessions. I just loaded up the car, taking the 7-4 green frog and the Gordita tomorrow!

Took the 7-4 green frog out, had a blast!  I mean I didn't impress anyone, haha, but got plenty of waves and a few good turns in.  This is the board Rich hated, but it was working for me today, I'm thinking of sticking with it for a bit to see if I can handle the relatively smaller size (volume).  Cuz it felt fast and responsive, I'd really like to see if I could get comfortable on it. Stoked!  Maybe try some different fins eventually.

Hey Matty that's cool, looking forward to hearing something!  If its a complete bust, maybe I can find something else you might enjoy?  Will keep you updated on the 8-8 as I get some more time on it.

This week I'm working on getting the hang of the 7-4, its a challenge, I do feel a little shaky on it at times, especially on my popup, but I caught several fun little waves again today, so really can't complain.  I'm thinking that with boards that have a wider nose, you have to be more up on the nose when you paddle into a wave, and really push that nose down into the wave as you take off, and maybe that was Rich's problem, he was further back like he's used to on his standard shortboard shape.  Cuz I just can't see otherwise how he found it harder to catch waves with than a shortboard.

LiveTheMoment wrote:

Nothing wrong with a thicker rail, my second favorite board of all time had thick rails, in my head I was saying that it shouldn't work...... But it did.

Funny LTM, my mind works the same.   When I finished my Wing Squad, I looked at it and thought "I blew it - the rails are too thick, its not gonna work."  Then when I tried it, I was pleasantly surprised, the rails were not an issue.  It turns good too, I'm sure a better surfer could turn it better, but I'm able to step back and swing it around just fine when I try, most the time I'm just headed down the line.  I had a few waves where they sectioned out ahead of me and I thought OK nowhere to go forward, so I hit the skids and it wrapped right around and headed the other way, kinda surprised me.  I'm thinking of a twin fin version, but just a little smaller, thinner, narrower, for my next board.

Years ago I had a twin fin fish, loved that board. For now I'm just experimenting by trying different fin setups.

The paint on the wing squad was not really very transparent when it was finished, it was thin but I put several thin coats. The whole board was brush painted (I may have used a foam roller for some of it, don't remember) on the foam, and it worked out fine, looks good, you can't tell it wasn't sprayed.

I've had several good sessions on my Wing Squad lately, the one with "too thick" rails, confirming (to my mind anyway) that I'm on to something here.  I've also had a few comments regarding how easy I get around and how easy I catch waves, and even a comment that I probably caught more waves than anybody else on one particular day.  I'm not real hyper, I tend to sit outside and wait for sets, so that's an accomplishment.

I'm convinced that most older surfers would rather stick with a "mainstream" board even tho its not working for them and they're not getting many waves, than to try something as different as my shapes.  Which is fine, more waves for me.  So while people will comment that my boards seem to work for me, I have tried to loan them out several times to no avail.

There is a bit of a learning curve, or adapting curve, with these high volume boards, at least there was for me.  Its not a huge transition, but yeah there's probably gonna be a few kooky moves in the process.  But I'm a little skeptical about people's comments that "thin rails are high performance", and "thick rails are clunky", since I have noted very few people are willing to ride a board with thick rails, so what do they really know?  Just parroting words.

I think thick rails can work well if the overall design is working well.  They ride a bit different, you have to turn off the tail more, but that's do-able, just have to get used to it.  These boards are not longboards, but I think they're easier to adapt to if you just look at them as a performance longboard, and go from there.

All of this is in the context of my goals, and in no way am I a "thick rail" advocate per se, the thicker rails are merely the inevitable result of adding more volume via thickness in order to make an "old guy" board easier to get around on, and easier to catch waves with.  I did push that envelope beyond what anybody else around my surf area is doing, although I think Joe Blair is on the same page, and his shapes (as seen on his website) have been an inspiration for me.

Overall I'm feeling pretty good about this journey, and the risks I've taken in designing something outside the box.  So far I am the only person willing to give my own designs a go, but I'm pretty stoked on them and happy to be getting waves on the crowded days.  I haven't "mastered" these boards, I feel like I'm still learning how to surf them, but I'm getting waves and having fun.  Which was my goal, because I was sick of paddling out on crowded days and NOT getting waves and NOT having fun!  That's what began this journey for me.

So this is my thinking at this point: older guys wanting to ride a higher performance board will paddle out on a mainstream shape and get very few waves, and be frustrated, while I paddle out on my oversized and too thick boards with too thick rails, and get lots of waves and have a blast.  I'm not advancing the sport, just making the stoke more accessible in my senior years.  Not a very sexy goal, clearly most people do not even consider it worth discussing, but its a goal that's very dear to my heart - hah!

So my goals were modest, and my accomplishments very basic, if somewhat elusive.  I'm not pushing any performance envelope except my own, a 60 year old guy who just wants to surf with the kids and have as much fun as they're having.

BTW I finally finished up the ding repairs on the 8-8 Matty quad, hopefully get that back in the water soon too. Thanks to any and all who are still following this thread!