The Future of Foam?

40 posts |
Last post
DEADSHAPER's picture
Joined: 03/23/2007

If you don't ask, you don't get.  Questing for an eco friendly foam surfboard blank that's process in making absorbs carbon vs. carbon emissions.  

A formidable task to say the least, but man's ability to dream landed him on the moon.  I say go for it! However, be skeptical of the results until fully proven.  We've been down this road before.

http://www.outsideonline.com/1974621/your-next-surfboard-will-be-made-algae

And yet another approach:  http://varialsurf.com

like
0
BarrySnyder's picture
Joined: 02/21/2009

Artic Foam.

Great idea, probably wrong company.

They have enough problems with quality and consistency.

Varial is strong and has great flex caracteristics.

But seems over-priced.

I'm happy with US Blanks.

Consistant, and professional.

like
2

Barry Snyder

Surfboards made by hand. Not machine.

http://barrysnyderdesigns.com

Instagram @barrysnyderdesigns

DEADSHAPER's picture
Joined: 03/23/2007

I haven't experienced the inconsistency you speak of with Arctic, and I use a lot of it.  I agree that U.S. Blanks is very professional and their blank catalog is deep offering many blanks in both polyurethane and EPS.  

Varial is a different approach altogether and I was recently approached by them which it turns out one of the partners (Peter Borneman) was one of my early day team riders as a kid.  I think the price is prohibitive in our current economy, but I applaud their efforts for pushing the envelope.

I still remain very skeptical of MDI foams and what they are capable of due to the merry go round we all rode after Clark Foam's closure.  Sometimes toxic chemicals net good results for products albeit not for humans that work with them.  Then again, sometimes people have misguided fears about chemicals that they know little about and falsely place blame based on ignorance.  

I guess that's the yin and yang of everything around us.  

Happy Thanksgiving BTW....

like
3
G-Man's picture
Joined: 06/25/2004

The very last photo, B&W . . . I recognize it from the original Sufboard Builders Yearbook, which I still have(!). Man, am I dating myself!

like
0

G-Man

McDing's picture
Joined: 05/22/2004

I guess I breezed thru you comments on Arctic with regard to consistency and quality.  I know you don't shape their foam ; so I'm thinking you must be referring to the Days when Marty and Andrew were using Midget's Surfblank's formula.  If that's the case I can only assume that you are not familiar with their product over the past couple of years.  Their foam is at the top of the heap( although I put Millennium right their with them.  I never rag on US Blanks (your obvious favorite) because I have shaped and would if there was no Arctic or Millennium.  Suffice to say I'm taking it for granted you have no experience with either.  Shape what you like, but it's not necessary to put down another product when obviously alot of people are very happy with it.

like
0

That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.

oldmanwaves's picture
Joined: 01/11/2020

I will pay extra for Varial type products - I have seen people run over Varial boards with their trucks - Who would do that? LOL

like
0

oldmanwaves.com

reverb's picture
Joined: 03/20/2004

...hello, I never heard about Varial brand; so do you say that is worthwhile to try to find some?

like
0
DEADSHAPER's picture
Joined: 03/23/2007

I posted these two directions from foam suppliers that are currently offering &  exploring merely as a suggestion that they are out there and perhaps worth spending a little time to reserach for yourself. I'm not making any claims on their worthiness nor if you should try one or the other or both.

like
0
McDing's picture
Joined: 05/22/2004

I shape and sell both Millennium and Arctic.  I love'em both!  Consistent and great to shape.  Most of my longboards are Millennium because the glue ups are done state side.  Quick turn around.  They gotta a great catalog and get my orders ready super fast.  Arctic is quick and there blanks just keep looking better every order.  I think the Arctic is prettier when finished that any foam on the market.  Tight, white and "Sugaree".  TheirAlgae foam may be in production by Spring 2016.  The Jaws Comp was just won on a Pyzel gun made from an Arctic blank.  Lowel

like
1

That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.

Acqua_Glassing's picture
Joined: 06/20/2012

Ditto on the above.

The varial ive been pretty happy with as well.  its pretty solid and feels much more like my stringered polys than anything. We are building a few boards from them and the feeback is great. The poly and epoxy glass option is a nice feature as well.

Im currently trying to abuse the hell out of 1 locally and its holding up really great. Im impressed.

pricey, but the durability factor comes into play.. is 125.00 more worth it if it lasts 2x as long? 

like
0

"Get out of the library and into the lab"

McDing's picture
Joined: 05/22/2004

What I have seen in So. Cal. OC and San Diego shops lately is a mix of  Arctic/Millennium, with US Blanks thrown in and EPS of US Blanks and Marko.  Good  foam aplenty and good times.   Lowel 

like
0

That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.

marsh's picture
Joined: 05/03/2009

From the short video about the Algae blanks it looks like they are pouring the mix into a normal mold so I'm guessing they are replacing one of the petro chemical ingreadients with an Algae grown petro chemical ingreadient? How sustainable is that? Slightly better but not much?

I'm no chemist but I think there's so much marketing miss-information about sustainable surfboards.

Polystyrene is a 'plastic' made with styrene, a petro chemical. Its not any more environmentaly awesome than Polyurethane.

Most (afordable) Epoxy Resins are made with Petro Chemical ingedients same as Polyester. 

Fiberglass, Carbon fiber, urethane glues, plastic plugs/fins. not really sustainable...

Shipping materials all over the world to Asia then finished boards back to the 'consumer' market place?

I think sustainablility is longer lasting surfboards and locally available materials to reduce transport emmissions, also quality custom not consumer rubbish.

So I don't think PU is that bad in comparison.  Ideally reducing waste with PU foam you'd have more molds which were close tollerance with perfect stringers for the design. But this requires more factory space which is expensive and longer wait times because of too much choice to the shapers.

In Australia the (not too far) future of surfboard foam will be interesting because the 3 biggest and best manufactures are well into their 70's and 80's. 

Is it ecconomically viable to buy these businesses? (even if they came up for sale, they might just go out like Gordon). Property is SO expensive in Sydney and to an extent Brisbane. Expensive property (and labour) also makes it hard to start a new business.... 

The Future of Foam?

like
2
reverb's picture
Joined: 03/20/2004

...hello Marsh, Im with you about the marketing stuff and as I mentioned several years ago here, the future of surfboards and this labor is ONLY sustained by the blanks factories; mainly the Aussie ones; so yes, the future will be uncertain after Midget etc retire or close. The future will be based on marketing and no educated kids and grow "kids" with pro circuit heads. You can add what Slater would do with firewire etc to the mix...

like
0
GregTate's picture
Joined: 03/18/2004

Good  level-headed discussion. With candor and good will. Makes me happy  

I may try some Virial just for the experience. 

All the best

like
0

Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught. - Winston Churchill

Piteraman's picture
Joined: 08/15/2015

Has anyone come across agave blanks from Indonesia?  I am not trying to start rumors but I have seen it mentioned in the marketplace.

like
0

"Unrestrained Moderation"

Piteraman's picture
Joined: 08/15/2015

How can there be a future for foam if major cities in the USA are banning its use, like NYC and SF?  The future of foam is to move away from it.  It is toxic stuff that can be replaced with natural or less polluting substances, just as humanity has done away with lead in products like paint and gasoline.

It is hypocrisy for the progressive culture of surfing to hold onto an outdated, and ultimately bad material.  We can do better, and the answers are out there.

like
0

"Unrestrained Moderation"

McDing's picture
Joined: 05/22/2004

You lead the way big dog.  Trees take longer to replace than foam.  News to me that SF and NYC have banned it.  Can you foot note or site your source for that claim??  There's nobody producing foam in those cities anyway.  Very few shapers operating in those cities as real estate and shop space costs are prohibitive.  In 2006 a buch of profits on this very site made predictions and claims such as yours.  To which none of those forecasts came true.  Other that SUP(poly for the most part is too heavy),  EPS foam surfboards and alternative foams account for about 10-12% of the total market.  Wood at less than 1%.  All for good reasons.  There are now three Poly Surfboard Foam manufacturers marketing foam in the U.S. and three EPS manufacturers.  If anything the loss of Clark has been a boom to the Surfboard Industry.  You can't "supersize" your soda in NYC either.  Who gives a $#!t what they do in SF or NYC.  Follow that one right off the cliff.  That's for sure.;

like
0

That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.

Piteraman's picture
Joined: 08/15/2015

Here´s a list from the Surfrider website of cities with public bans on foam.  I over simplified the ban in SF, thinking it was across the board like NYC but in fact it only pertains to food packaging.

I live where agave grows abundantly and many people surf, although they are buying boards from the other side of the world in USA and other far off lands.  So yes, I am starting the agave movement here on this old colony.  What good is surfing if it is bringing people to my home islands to trash it by discarding busted boards in our land fills.  I understand how foam is not a percieved mainland problem but when we scale life down to the island level, we will need to find solutions for foam that never returns to the Earth, which is afterall, an island in our solar system.

Compared to all other materials for building surfboards, in my opinion, agave is the least amount of embodied energy.  I can spend an hour in the shop and turn hand cut stalks into a blank.  The mushrooms and balsa and all that require massive energy inputs to to harvest, transport, synthesize, cook off mold, etc.  Agave is the original foam.  I gather foam came from the word phloem, which describes the inner fibers of plants that transports nutrients, the soft foamy material.

PU makes for great surfboards but no one has fjgured out how to make it disappear when it is no longer in use.  I like the recycled EPS companies but in the end humans will have to close the pandoras box we have opened.

And, McDing is not using foam following others off the cliff?  If we know foam is bad in the long term in relation to humanity and life on Earth (sea life included) why are people blindly using it?  Wasn´t Clark Foam forced out of business for contaminating the environment they shared with so many people, at least, once they decided it was no longer making them MONEY?

like
0

"Unrestrained Moderation"

McDing's picture
Joined: 05/22/2004

First of all;  there is no reason for me to believe that building and surfing PU or EPS is following anyone off acliff.  Secondly make a good strong board of PU or EPS and when it is old you can build a fence around your yard of boards from you former quiver.  The idea that surfboards of any kind contribute significantly to landfills and the destruction of the Planet is complete blind exsintrict Bullshit.  Do what you like but don't lay your Bullshit trip on me.  What about all those poor Agave stalks that you cut down that never grew into trees .  Abusive if you ask me.  A rip off of the planet.  Quit surfing so we can make Tequila.  L

like
0

That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.

Piteraman's picture
Joined: 08/15/2015

The basis of my work and belief is I can promote positive change.  I have slaved in grocery stores and long wondered what person in their right mind would package fruits or meat or whatever on a white foam tray when they can use cardboard or a plastic bag?  That white stuff never goes away and it is nearly impossible to find a place to recycle it.  That´s the point.  I realize many shapers just consider their love for surfing and making things with their hands but why not also think about the material?

Like I said before, PU foam is archaic and bad for humans and the planet, no matter what form - much like asbestos, lead and mercury.  People have long used materials that they later find out to be harmful to themselves and the environment.  Dont be blind to the fact that foam is one of these harmful products, and there are alternatives.

I get it is more difficult to work with new and natural materials compared to foam but that´s where this craft will evolve.  It has always evolved through materials and how people adapt to the new form.

I found agave (because it grows wild where I live and is considered a pest) and there are many more alternatives to foam out there.  I have learned much through observing the plant life cycle.  I am willing to teach you a little about the plant if you are interested.  For one, it is a plant not a tree and the flower is the last stage of its life before it dries out and dies into organic material for the soil or part of a surfboard.

Its a lot of work to shape but for the machinists its all the same.  I mean no offense but I feel strongly about an evolving surf.

like
0

"Unrestrained Moderation"

McDing's picture
Joined: 05/22/2004

First of all I am not hot.  No need to cool down as I am already " cool, calm and calculating".  I'm just sick and tired (gag me with a spoon) of lame "save the planet" rhetoric.  Go off and make your very pretty, poor performance Agave boards.  Foam surfboards are here to stay.  Less  likely to run into objections from the likes of me.  Pretty damned obvious that you don't know the differance between Asbestos and Foam.  Shows your lack of knowledge.  An obvious comparison that you hoped no one would point out as asinine.  Lowel

like
0

That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.

sharkcountry's picture
Joined: 03/25/2006

Saw something that may be Varial foam recently. It was shaped by Rusty and sent to a glasser here. Very light and hard. Looked up their site, but it doesn't look like they sell single raw blanks. You can get a machined blank from them, but I don't know what those cost. If the raw blanks were available and they didn't cost a lot, I'd certainly try one.

I'm still using inexpensive EPS for now, and adding balsa skins or more glass for added when strength when needed. Was planning on switching back to PU, but I've been getting good deals on EPS. It will be a while before I actually work with anything else.

The other blank I really liked was the XTR XPS foam I was lucky to try.

Wood blanks have all kinds of issues when compared to foam. Weight would be a big one, having a consistent even weighting across the whole board, and keeping it down. I haven't found wood that makes a lighter board than foam. Starting with raw trees takes a lot of work and time, and if bugs get to the wood before you can use it, you're screwed.

like
0
sharkcountry's picture
Joined: 03/25/2006

We use petroleum to make foam, but I'm pretty sure that we're using by-products and that the main use for petroleum is fuel. Either to make fuel for transportation or the Energy sector. The Energy sector uses the waste product called fuel oil. It's a heavy, tar like product one step above the stuff they pave roads with. Foams are made from other by-products that are pulled off crude oil during the refining process.

I don't know what is worse, sucking oil out of the ground for fuel or cutting all the trees down for all the wood products we use. Cutting trees has direct impacts on a variety of animals, and the environments where trees are "logged". It is a big reason why we are contributing to climate change. The cutting of all the tropical rainforests has a huge impact on the world's climate, and air quality.

Tree farms are not necessarily good for the environment either. We clear cut huge areas of the natural habitat to create sterile zones of harvestable trees, or planations of highly desireable plants.

The styrofoam they make for food products is a totally different product from polyurethane surfboard foam. The total volume of PU surfboard foam made world-wide is probably a drop in the bucket compared to styrofoam used for other products.

like
0
Piteraman's picture
Joined: 08/15/2015

If that is true why not look to develop a better material than foam, which has been in use for nearly 50 years.  Why add to the bucket at all?  Surfing is a unique sport that is basically off the grid requiring zero energy other than the surf board.  Why mix into such a basic and beautiful leisure the corrupt and violent industry of oil?  *I have a buddy who loads oil trains in Colorado and several of his co-workers have been killed on the job, this is no joke.  Surfing and shapers can aspire to be outside that realm of human destruction, and really it is on the shapers to advance the craft, just as the previous generation moved away from logging our planets rain forests for their craft in turn for manufactured foam, which made sense at the time when little was known about foam.

Agave is one of many viable solutions and alternatives to oil based surfboard production.  Agave is not a tree but a plant, and is only useful for surf at the end of the plants life when it is merely a perch for birds to rest and eventual organic matter for the soil.  It can be farmed or collected wild from nature.  I collect it wild from vulnerable areas like creek beds, where it is also more accessible than cliffsides.  For me it is local so it makes sense for my production.  The process uses a fraction of the amount of energy used to mill trees (from falling, transport, milling) and yields zero waste because the sawdust goes to the worms and garden.

like
0

"Unrestrained Moderation"

DEADSHAPER's picture
Joined: 03/23/2007

For practical purposes agave is not viable.  Great idea but falls short of supplying the mass market.  It's not the easiest raw material to work with either. Just ask guys that have used it a lot.  

It does produce a very pleasing product if you are willing to dedicate yourself to it.  I suspect the compression it yields (like balsa) is impressive just using one layer of 4 oz cloth.  But as I said before...... unless raw materials suppliers.... NOT shapers, are willing to secure the raw material and can guarantee its consistency (many times the plants harvested net widely varying results)  acceptable for production for such cosmtically and structurally demanding products such as surfboards, then I doubt we will see this material introduced into the marketplace due to widespread distribution.

like
1
Piteraman's picture
Joined: 08/15/2015

Very accurate assessment in stating the supply of agave blanks is non existent nor able to fill any (potential) market demand.  If you build it, they will come . . . .

I work with agave on many levels including surf, and I equate agave as a viable material to the use of bamboo in its potential market appeal.  20 years ago few people knew about bamboo other than panda bears eat it.  Then cam the bamboo flooring and eventually seemingly endless uses of the material in daily life as an alternative material.

Agave is very much the same in its utility potential but no one has yet build the market by building the public knowledge and promoting its use to such a level that it is seen in the marketplace.  In time, agave will be a common material like hemp or bamboo because it is a natural alternative and low in energy cost to create products compared to plastics.

It may start with surf and branch out from there.  I use it for many applications in the house and in design.  People really like my works before they know what the material is because it yields functional products that are beautiful and space age density to volume confusion. 

Dude, its a matter of time till agave hits the market.  I intend to make a go of it.  I am in a situation/space with the potential to mass market agave blanks.  I am still learning the material after 4 years of working and observing the plant (not a tree).  And the public is willing to listen and try it because it is a practical material without a use (here).

Today people relate agave to tequila in similar fashion to how bamboo was related to pandas 20 years ago.  20 years from now, hopefully, agave will be what bamboo is today - everywhere and a useful alternative to what already exists.

like
0

"Unrestrained Moderation"

McDing's picture
Joined: 05/22/2004

y

like
0

That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.

drzoidberg's picture
Joined: 06/22/2012

I wonder what the chemistry behind the varial stuff is. They probably won't tell, but does anybody have any ideas?

Foam is here to stay if you ask me. What's not here to stay is the current synthesis methods, blowing methods and recycling methods. I did a project on this for a class in my senior year, and I was a chem major so it was in depth on the chemistry side of things. People are working to reduce the energy cost associated with synthesizing ethyl benzene, which is the precursor to styrene monomer. For example, I saw a one pot synthesis involving toluene, methanol and a proprietary catalyst that goes right to styrene monomer with more mild reaction conditions and temperatures. That synthesis also has a much higher selectivity for styrene, so it's more efficient, and the waste product is hydrogen, not CO2 or something of that nature. The H2 can be used for energy to power the reaction by burning it, which is cleaner than burning hydrocarbons. 

I also read a paper about an interesting process to depolymerize EPS back to styrene monomer. The used a high powered mcrowave and old used tires, oddly enough, to cause depolymerization through pyrolysis. They got a 66% yield, and considering this is in the experimental stages I'd call that decent. You can use the styrene monomer again, rather than having to make more. 

like
0

Boards shaped: 8

sanded's picture
Joined: 08/24/2012

There is more options coming on board, working on one at the moment. Think of a structural waterproof EPS that can be hand shaped.

About 12-18 months away for commercial.. but happy so far, fingers crossed the pros like it!

like
0

www.sanded.com.au

LucidSurf's picture
Joined: 08/09/2016

We've been a few years in the works at perfecting this board. NO FOAM! Much stronger than the foam boards. No more pressure dings. Not 100% "green" but pretty close to it. Spring of 2016 we should have them for sale. Check us out, when they become available go beat the crap out of them!

www.lucidsurfco.com

like
0
DEADSHAPER's picture
Joined: 03/23/2007

Interesting comments from the last several posters on this thread.  Question: how quickly does Agave grow in comparison to some of the fast growing Bamboo genus, or geni (whatever the proper plural is for genus)?  Sidenote: many of the bamboo flooring materials have hideous toxic adhesives in them - there is an effort to get nations to join  an organization that requires them to comply with safer methods, but that has been met with limited success.  

As far as bamboo, balsa, agave or some other natural product replacing the wide used TDI (Toulene di Isocynate) or MDI (Methyl di Isocynate) based foam, that's not likely to happen in our lifetime.  EPS has vastly imroved for surfboard blank use since the widespread incorporation of EDRO/IDRO machines producing it, and the recyclability of the material is pretty darn admirable.... still, a considerable % of surfers don't prefer the ride on such a core.  

The other materials and methods some of the posts hint at will only come to light when proprietary rights are secured and they have more fully developed and been covninced as to the feasibility of pursuing a Business Plan and founding of  acompany chasing after the almighty buck or pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.  

Good input from fellow Swaylockians on this thread -  I never even thought 'it' would have a life!

like
0
Piteraman's picture
Joined: 08/15/2015

It takes on average 7-10 years for a agave to mature from 'seedling' depending on the variety.  I have found agave americana grows biggest where I am living.  It grows as a rhizome under the ground like ginger or banana tree and many pups grow around the base, kind of like clumping bamboo.  One agave can turn into hundreds in a matter of one life cycle so beware it is very invasive under the right conditions.  Once the plant dies it makes the flower, which is used as wood.  The flower also grows thousands of pups and millions of seeds.  

The agave farm is th future for western usa.  Mexico, Australia and Brazil all have major biofuel programs and industry using it.The advantage of agave is it requires very little energy input to convert flowers to wood and then blanks.  No chemical processes.  It can be done by hand.  And the waste can be reused as fuel or compost, although it is very acidic for the soil.

Its only a matter of time until Exxon and others catch on.  It is an incredibly useful plant like coconut, bamboo, cannabis and others.  Its the the original foam and solar panel.

like
0

"Unrestrained Moderation"

DEADSHAPER's picture
Joined: 03/23/2007

Agave sounds unique as a plant and definitely has the ability to produce an aesthetically beautiful product.  I have heard it can be difficult to work with, particularly compared to the ease of today's polyurethane and expanded polystyrene - which both materials can be recycled.  

I wonder if the same care in shaping agave has to be exercised as with balsa, which, without proper vacuum and/or mask protection the fibers will swell inside your lungs if breathed in while shaping?  (Note:  moisture in your lungs will cause balsa particles to swell causing discomfort and impaired respiration).

like
0
Piteraman's picture
Joined: 08/15/2015

You bring up a good point in taking precautions when working with agave, although I would take the same care with foam or wood and wear a mask and have good ventilation.  Personally, I would choose a lung full of organic matrial rather than coating them with microplastics.  Agave dust can cause breathing problems because it is hydrophilic like the eucalyptus mentioned.  Agave is a water magnet, so it makes sense it would attract water if inside the lungs.  I wear a full face mask like Hizenberg when working it because it also dries my eyes out.  I dont have proper vaccum system in my shop, yet, and the dust is everywhere and particles are always suspended in the air.  So a vaccum and particle filter would be ideal but down the road.

Working agave is difficult but not impossible and a lot more aligned with foam than hollow wood construction.  For me the difficulty is in the glue lines, which are hard like glass in comparison to the soft, foam like agave core.  So when shaping the less dense material is taken off faster and more easily than harder exterior skin or glue.  I would equate it to driving a manual transmission to an automatic one.  Surely, manual is more complicated and fun to use while the auto is less complicated both achieve a similar end.  If one only learned and experienced driving with an auromatic then transitioning to manual may sem daunting and difficult.  Although, if one is learns proper technique for driving a manual then that unknown is readily mastered.  

Don't be scurred.  Find a piece of agave that is dead and dried out and play with the material.  It will blow your mind.  It is like no other wood or material I have come across and it is very easy to shape, sans the hard skin which should be removed and the glue up lines.

like
0

"Unrestrained Moderation"

patricksurf's picture
Joined: 05/02/2004
hi guys i read this topic and is very interesting,but im also a foam producer im not in worldwide distribution, im a just a small... but what you should be pay attention to call a foam green or not is about term ecofriendly ,, is the type of blowing agent used, before was the cfc and wasbanned, now we have the hcfc and in 2-3 years will be also world wide banned ,to understand blowing agent need more than 9 years to dissolvein the air ,some other just few days but have higher price,sometimes foam producer always look to save money to make more profitable the products or maybe they dont know about chemistry or they just using a formulation provided from big chemical company . now all the polyols are coming from crude oil...can be algae or palm oil ,,,, so many company write we are green using algae.or whatever ... and bla...bla..... but polyols are from crude oil. what is dangerous for who use the blanks ,like the shaper and who preshapes blanks is what type of catalyst been used to get the foam. you will see many blanks have stronger odor some less,,,that is amine odor catalyst.... and is not healthy...also here there are new generations of catalyst with lower odor but much more expensive....and inside the foam .. rigid foam have around 90 percent closed cell..inside there is gas... and most of them are not friendly.. so basically the main game of big company selling the safer and greener products for more $$$. okei be safer and green as possible ,but shaper always need first the quality of the foam...foam makes the quality of a surfboard , client want always light but strong so the foam make the difference. but until now nobody make a test comparative of the foam.probably because nobody want talk bad about other company,also test are not cheap to do. if some want i will do.. i have all type of foam of major producers.. i always compare my foam to understand if quality is good or poor or where i should improve compared to otherfoam producers i always do this test cell size. weight density compression elongation perforation discoloration flex and spring test flotation test resistance absorption of water. to be honest at moment the best formulation i have ever seen is surfblanks in australia super strong formulation... is very hard but also have a weight density of 58.82 the highest compared to other.but makes the board stronger even with only 1 layer on deck..... compared to us blanks or bennett have lower weight density but also lower mechanical resistance. after flex and spring i will not mention,,so someone have better strenght other more flex and spring... thats make the board feel more alive.... but some surfer looks for durability..they cant understand the feeling of flex and spring of the foam. we make a test with a small machine making 5000 repetitive small bend ...around 45 degrees and after we record every cycle of 100 to see how it goes..... so to judge a foam quality is not easy .... and polyurethane is not obsolete is the most advanced product for structural foam ..for quality-prices....always new chemical arrive on market after is to us to find the correct use and formulation..to get the results we need... if you need foam cheap? strong? light?super flex? fast rebound? not turn yellow fast ,super white... now tyred to typing..... sorry for my bad english..
like
2
keithmelville's picture
Joined: 03/18/2004
Any comparison info between foams is very useful, tell us more!
like
0
reverb's picture
Joined: 03/20/2004
...after all your test you see what I have been preaching here that Surfblanks is the best foam, but mostly in this forum are from USA so they still think that have all the best materials. Also only Surfblanks Brazil have the lightest of the surfboard blanks (a density called premium) I have a bunch and hold pretty good. -on the other side I tested several small factories foam and never ever obtained such a good formula.
like
0
kayu's picture
Joined: 07/24/2009
I think EPS is a far cleaner foam than poly.....for starters , it's completely recyclable into new EPS stock .........it's predominantly fire proof these days , and the toxic blowing agent has been removed from the steaming process .........in Aus , it's less than half the price of an equivalent poly blank , and also half the weight . For years now , I have been using a locally produced water-based epoxy for both glassing EPS and finish coating composite surf craft.....I still use some poly blanks , but the glassing is farmed out , so my workshop is generally free of flammable and toxic containers .......still love traditional PU/PE craftmanship , which I hope will never fade away , but the pressure on mass producers of such craft have resulted in too many corners being cut and durability dropping through the floorboards - sure , they look slick in the showroom , but they were ( or should be) built for the salt water environment , not the air conditioned showroom environment........to each his own.
like
0

http://www.currumbinwoodworks.com.au/

KeahanaUSA's picture
Joined: 03/09/2020

Best foam available is Keahana. We have HPPS, pps foam blanks, it Fixes all problems with poly and eps starting with its water resistance 

like
0
McDing's picture
Joined: 05/22/2004

Checked out your website etc.  Interesting approach.   Not something for a guy like me, but definitely workable for "one offs" and beginners.  The whole packaged kit, premeasured etc. is good marketing.  Over here in the U.S. everybody's an expert and they want to do everything on the cheap.  They all think they can shape and glass a board that looks better than a custom $1200 board from a local shaper and surf shop.  So they probably wouldn't watch your videos, nor follow instructions.  Lowel.  PS -- kiddin a bit;  but now I know what a "Sash" is and learned a new use for what we call over here a "dust pan".  Wish you sucess.

like
0

That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.