Hey Huck,
Just some thoughts on rail thickness for us rail grabbers. Lately I have been playing around a bit with rail thickness, one thing that I have learnt is that thinner rails seem to really put the brakes on while taking off for us rail grabbers, thicker rails seem to have less braking affect even if the overall board volume is low.
After so many years surfing I can't see myself changing my pop ups and not grabbing those rails, so its something to think about while designing boards.
f#*& me
i have been asked to take part in a workshop and panel of experts round table panel discussion at the Noosa festival of surfing in march.
as in i get 1/4 of a 11 by 9 metre tent to set up and work in for the day and then present and take part in the round table discussion.
All based on the concept of recycling and eco/sustainable boards.
Thanks for the compliment….
“Like jewelry on a pig”, Dale Velzy…
I think your work as real value.
And has my attention.
Perhaps your fresh approach.
I’m seeing a few shapers trying multi- concaves,
only, they are using chines and grooves.
Something we tried just before the twins came on, (late 70's)
Understand,
What I am getting at briefly is.
I am born and raised So. Cal oldphart.
I am very aware of the difference in waves.
And I think the waves you a riding on the “Bat tail” are
well, they have more zop or energy than we do…
How 'bout feedback or ride reports…
If you like go to PM.
Aloha,
John
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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.
Matty
I'm gunna put this here too aswell as the general discussion post as we may be able to discuss thing more here than out there.
Feel free anyone else to chime in.
Adam
Hope it makes sense.
Ride reports so far. But starting with a random thought or two.
Well first thing I wanna say is that I have seen two production slater design sciphi boards in the last week and both have them have had the tail channels but no belly channels. I assume this is due to the practicality of producing thousands of boards in a Thai factory means it's too hard to get the quality control with the belly channels. Be very interested to see if the ones stu Kennedy is riding at snapper have the belly channels. Also the tail channels in them seem to be more like traditional channels and not the concaves that the ones on the sciphi boards in the original marketing.
In my opinion the belly channels are the engine room of he design. Leaving them off a the board is like going to a Robert Downey Jr party in the mid 90's and forgetting to take your nose. (See what I did there)
The board
It's 5' 6 5/8" 18.5" by 2 3/8"
The file I made up for it was 5' 8" but I blew over in the wind in my Staffroom and the rounded nose was born. I kept it fairly volumous to help me paddle it and keep it daily forgiving.
It seems to be going extremely good. It has a wider tail and more straight outline through the rear of the board means it can accelerate super quick and the bat tail and the step in of the outline means you can use the extra rocker on the rail (still fairly low) to turn the board at speed. And the reduced central rocker due to the large single concave in the middle (that's been split up into 4 concaves) allows the board to get up and plane and lift and therefore go fast really easy
It seems to have encouraged me to get low of the bottom and lean into some really centered bottom turns into some good top turns.
In smaller waves the complex bottom concave in the guts seem to not like the hop between sections but if I get some forced upper body rotation and fin drive it allows me to get through sections better and be almost prepared for a carving turn when the section pops up again.
The enemy of this board in smaller stuff is standing still. It just doesn't plane very well at low speeds. But I have grovellers for that. If the waves are bigger it's easy to surf standing still but who wants to?
The fact I have not put the complex concaves in the tail is seeming to work well in the weaker waves I have to deal with on the Sunshine Coast. Seems to allow the water to flow out of the belly with easy speed. Seems to let the tail come around nice. I've only surfed it as a thruster so far. I've got some quad trailers in the car. It I just haven't put em in yet.
I've been surfing it in SLOP and a few good waves and I'm equally as stoked on it. Due to the low rocker there have been a few times I've aimed at a smaller steep section coming off the top and bogging as the board releases from the wave surf face but this is due to a lack of technique I needed to commit my upper body over the front knee and flow down through the turn. It I was under rotating and dividing down the line too much. In good waves it has just been super nice.
So many things.
Skatement, I have to say that the guy that glassed it did an awesome job of that tinted hotcoat.
The more details you can provide with the ride reports the better.
Just a question out of interest, what kind of bottom contour are you running off the tail?
I originally shaped it as the double extending out through it and therefore a little v in the last little bit. But the finished product with the multipla layers of glass and filler coat has changed it to pretty much flas in the last little section maybe a bit of double. Need to run a straight edge over it.
Slight double which would naturally fade itself to a slight vee off the tail is exactly what I would have put in, very easy to have that contour dulled during glassing and sanding if you are not laminating it yourself.
I feel inspired to have a go at making a board similar to what you have. But I need to make myself a step up first..... so many ideas so little time.
keep us posted Skatement.
i have made acquaintances with an old salt here in Aus that has been and seen Everything. and i mean everything. working with scott dillon, in the EARLY 60's bouncing in and out of the shaping bays around sydney when the short board revolution was zipping, from 14 foot tooth pics to 5'2 knifey railed zippers with bunker spreckles at jay bay.
He's really sick at the momoent and has hawiian elders who grew up with buttons that he worked with making a gofund me page to help fund his treatment. Conversations with him are like one amazing connection of surfing royalty after another. These are some of his creations i have the pleasure of looking after at the moment. he says the longer pin tail is mine. Its based on a Nat young template and some amazing channel and keel fins.
Look at em Just look at em.
And yes they work. in fast barrels they really work
wow!! Sorry for your friend's health woes. You should record some interviews and try to get as much as you can - thats real history there.
love your avatar (when I first saw that pic I thought that should be his avatar)
Well what can I say, i will put this feedback/ ride report here cause i might get intelligent discussion and not the if you ride this you are less than heterosexual comment from bone heads. Now I have finished my board and been surfing it on and off for a few months. Based on the firewire cornice with some tweaks of the tail shape and a generous amount of volume and the thing CUTS SICK.
I surfed it this arvo in 2-3 foot slowish point break and the thing was "off its chops".
Especially with it set up as the thruster.
I have some fairly upright foiled fins. On my back hand it just had so much drive. Top turn and straight into another bottom turn and straight into another one. One wave I got about 6-8 turns in a 200 m ride. Paddled back out just popping with stoke. Said to one guy that wave was sick, felt like I got 100 turns in. His reply was "I know I saw it you're an animal" I was like did I hear that right.
I had at least three other people comment that the board looked like it was working great for me.
I also got these few pics the other morning but they were with the quad set up. The first two shots were two turns from the one wave.
The last shot is after surf froth this arvo.
Maybe another pretty pic of the board two.
Old mate taking the surf photos was on the 6th floor of a beach side apartment building with a long lens but they are a bit grainy as they are from a facebook message.
What kind of bottom contours are you running on that board?
From the photos it looks like it rides like you say with drive and projection. It does look like conditions that day were very suitable for that board. Looks to me that the fat round tail helps to keep it loose. The in cut rail I really dont know much about, my guess is that if the curve kind of mirrors the rocker to a certain extent it could possibly present itself as being straight at least in part when put on rail? Will need to think about that more before jumping to conclusions.
Got my attention as I will be doing a few experimental Tomo inspired boards soon. Dont want to start them until I am clear what I want to do
I like the explanation with technical diagrams in the side cut thread. The board looks like works good! Awesome pics your friend got! That deck coloring is so ugly! (cant be all positive haha).
I don't get the penis thing, it doesn't look like that to me! Don't understand why so many people want to say that???
I hope you will keep updating us on this board as you try it in different conditions. Do you plan to build any variations of the shape?
Thanks for sharing I am always curious / interested to learn about different shapes and design elements.
In the spirit of pushing forward…
Your “Old Salt” pounded a path I gave up on in 1965!
The idea of no fins fascinated me…
OS’s stuff is just mind blowing!
Such knowledge of flow…
Way cool…
That said, your “peanut”
Is cool and is very nice work.
I apologize if this becomes offensive, I mean nothing by the following, and it’s only history…
Us “Old Salts” are like that.
I know you are not claiming, only improving a design.
I was stupid enough to think I had discovered something new,
Only to find the Hawk had already done it!
And I might add more that once!
The “Hawk” = Dale Velzy
It is said (shapers now); we all came from Dale’s belly.
I’ll say Velzy was so very, very important to surfing design.
I believe no one has been more influential in surfboard development.
Decades of always pushing the limits.
#1 1960 parabolic
#2 (although he did the Banjo in the early 60’s, I can’t produce a photo) Banjo 1990
#3 Velzy’s, last 1999. Check out the fins!!!
Insane, yeah…
One hell of a guy...
Oh and shit, Dale helped down under with Gordon Woods, “in the day”
Carry on with your search and much Aloha!
The Morey Swizzle by "Y" (not Morey anymore) was brought up in another thread. I thought Matty might like this quote: Y first saw the design more than a decade ago in a surfboard shaped by Dick Velzy. "We are all still within the design shadow of that great man," Y says. "He is the pioneer of this business.
I would like to know more about the quads vs thruster comparisons - it seems you did not like the quad setup, and I'm curious to hear more, as I personally prefer quads over thrusters, but don't have a lot of thruster experience.
I usually like quads. But I have think the rears in this are too wide. Feels to loose and loses drive off the bottom. Just needs the middle fin to stabilise the fat bottom girl. (Have to wonder about the people who see penis's in everything.)
Matty never claimed to be ground breaking but it's new ground for me.
I do plan to make another board board based on this. Shorted and a bit wider and less thick.
And huck yes I know the colour work is but ugly. But I don't mind it, it was my first attempt as paint on foam, had no idea what I was doing. Of course a few weeks after mark Richards puts a up a video tutorial on Instagram and I saw everything I did wrong and the ideas I had to fix it would have been on the money,,,, next time gadget next time.
I think its awesome the way this project came together for you, amazing to me how little positive feedback there was on the General Discussion thread. I find my quads to be real drivey, funny to me it would feel too loose. I did try quads on a wide tailed simmons type board, and it lacked drive. I'm gonna get that board back soon, and try some different stuff to see if I can get it working. The paint comment was just kinda kidding, again I think its great to try new stuff and its all a learning process, which is half the fun. I'm always surprised at the questions from guys who want to get everything right and fuss over the silliest (to my mind) details. Like the guy who said he was afraid if he repaired his broken nose board it might weigh too much so he was gonna keep his wax clean then maybe it would be ok because dirty wax weighs more, haha.
Bottom contours
Deepish single to a double through the fins.
The double is kinda "in" a single though.
Sorry if that's not explained very well. Remember I'm only just into double figures with my board numbers. Like 10.....
Thats cool Skatement, you are doing extremely well considering the low board count. Double within the single these days is commonly called an inset double.
A lot of my personal boards recently have been straight single concaves as they are less complicated for some experiments that I have been doing.... but generally the inset double generally better for me.
Hopefully I might get started on some kind of short parrallel rail tomo inspired board this week. As your glasser moved the fins to match the oroduction shapes I was wondering if you might be kind enough to share the fin positions.
All the best LTM .... and keep us up to date with more tide reports!
I will suss it out.
I definitely think i would take the rear quads further in from the rail considering the shape, this one was glassed and fins set by me, so i cant blame anyone but me.
will send PM
Was lucky enough to be asked to show some of my stuff at the Noosa Festival of Surfing yesterday. Worked with two champions artisans from Japan, tom Wegener, met Japan's head of Patagonia and the international rep from "save the waves" (they decide if Noosa can become a international surfing reserve or not).
Got to speak at the end, and kept being introduced at Adam Baldwin the "mad scientist" of sustainable surfboard construction. Was a long day but very rewarding.
Sold 100 tickets in the school surfboard at 10 bucks a pop. So we are now looking at pre ordering a solo shot 3. Damn USD - AUD conversion rate is a bit nasty;(
had a few errors and buggs on the "fish for my fins thread" have to re-glue my blank together. be interesting to see how it goes,
Seems to be a few build threads creeping back.
Yew!!!!
This could be interesting,
Managed to score this Donald Brink asym, and scored even bigger with they guys from vissla bringing it back to australia for me for no extra cost.
200 bucks usd. all it has is a ding in the bottom that has been repaired.
but i cant find it in the photo, the boards looks brand new.
Haven't been this excited about a board for a long time....
Its funny I've told a few crew about it and to a man no one has heard of him, seriously???? where have they been????
Oh i know in the box of "normals"
This could be interesting,
Managed to score this Donald Brink asym, and scored even bigger with they guys from vissla bringing it back to australia for me for no extra cost.
200 bucks usd. All it has is a ding in the bottom that has been repaired.
But I cant find it in the photo, the boards looks brand new. Maybe the photo is from when it was brand new and its a bit beat up now????
Haven't been this excited about a board for a long time....
Its funny I've told a few crew about it and to a man, no one has heard of him, seriously???? where have they been????
Oh i know in the box of "normals".
Can't wait to see it in the flesh.
F me, it amazes me the sh## people comment all over. you do a thread of a build that you put you heart into an lay your soul out to bear and the crickets take over. Post some dumb sh** on there and ever pri## and his grandmother wants to give an opinion. Either way I'm excited about my fish and the Donald brink asym.
Now I gotta dig that thread up, haha.
--------------
OK, I'm gonna edit and add something here now that I went back and looked at that thread. Your picture files are so big that it takes forever for the pics to show up for me.
So that's why I quit checking in, I remember now. To view them readily on a phone, you need to set your pictures to a lower resolution, or edit them with MS Paint, and reduce them. You can even crop them with your phone software. But you're probably losing others besides me with your big slow loading picture files.
I expect to be ignored cuz I'm an old fart building boards for the senior set. But I think you should be getting more action on your thread.
This is typical of phone pics uploaded to the site, mine are the same. I'm pretty sure you can go to your camera settings (on your phone) and set it for a lower resolution.
What I do if posting pics from my phone is edit them first, cropping them to a smaller size. That's all it takes, easy peazy. If I don't, they typically show up sideways or upside down.
One of the thankless tasks I do as moderator is that I frequently download oversized pics and edit them to a lower resolution.
If you see a thread where the pics are sideways or upside down, then later they appear normal, that's probably cuz I edited them. Your threads are ones I do this pretty frequently, but I dont always have time to get to all of them.
I have posted comments to explain the problem, but people find it easier to just say "whatever", blow me off, ignore the advice to resize their pics, and carry on as usual :-D
I'll post up a couple pics below, one edited, one straight from my phone camera. They are the same pic. The bottom one appears upside down to me, it is 1.44 MB. I cropped it in the top version. Which is 1.01 MB. It doesn't appear upside down when I view it in my picture files in my phone, but when I post it to swaylocks it appears upside down.
If I had access to my computer I would use MS Paint and easily "resize" it down to KB (kilobytes) instead of MB (megabytes) which is where posted pics should be. And then i wouldn't even have to crop it if I didn't want to. But i have found most pics can benefit from a little discretionary cropping.
I'll try to remember that mate, not a bad idea. cropping is easy.
Now for a question here that i have also asked on the general discussion.
Rocker on a reverse rocker nose rider?
I got lots of ideas, but the rocker has me a bit baffled, it will be my first Longboard shape.
Dims will be around 22-23 wide and 3 thick single fin log kinda thing.
As in total rocker for nose and tail.
Rocker at maybe 12 inches and 24 from nose and tail.??
Any thoughts or suggestions would be awesome.
I know someone will say buy the 9'10" blank and then turn it around and start shaping, but i just want a guide to work from?
I've heard about it, the tail rocker helps create lift when on the tip but also allows it to turn, and soft rounded rails help it suck to the wave when you're on the nose?
just thought i would put this up here. Mattwho would remember the yellow and black board with the blunt nose. this is from exactly the same rocker template. It flew on the betty boop so i hole it goes good on the Wizzfish.
this is going to have some of stuart wissing's ashes in the laminate.
thus the Wizzfish
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@reclaim_surf formerly Skatement
(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
@reclaim_surf formerly Skatement
(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.
www.mattysurfboards.com
@reclaim_surf formerly Skatement
(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.
www.mattysurfboards.com
@reclaim_surf formerly Skatement
(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
@reclaim_surf formerly Skatement
(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
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(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
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(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
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@reclaim_surf formerly Skatement
(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
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I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.
www.mattysurfboards.com
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@reclaim_surf formerly Skatement
(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
@reclaim_surf formerly Skatement
(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
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(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
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@reclaim_surf formerly Skatement
(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
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(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
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@reclaim_surf formerly Skatement
(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
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