The Future of Sways

General Discussion
1

With Bill T’s slip away thread, and Resin Heads good-by thread. I’d like to make a few points.

Any organization that stifles creativity will die. Creative threads, where the poster shows something innovative, are the first threads to get crapped on by the notorious. That is unless you are cute and cagy, or one of the golden chosen.

The term “secret sauce” should be grounds for banishment. I don’t care who you are, if you do show and tell, but don’t explain, and answer a question, you are like a immature girl prick tease. Either share, or shut up!

And if you go even further, and trash someone else’s party, you are a dick.

Second point is without a brain, you die.

I’ve spoken to some of the moderators who want a hands off approach. Now, I know that your participation is a gift of charity you are offering, by taking your time to help out.

But without strong guidance, the squirrels get out of their cages.

You want to be successful? It takes work. Facebook? They dump content that doesn’t follow the rules. You Tube? They do the same.

If you cause too many threads to get locked, you should get locked.

If you like the way Sways is going, then just keep doing the same thing.

Thanks for letting me rant.

2

Rant?

Excepted…

You have balls!

That needed to be said…

Maintain the stoke.

3

Mattwho, your posts, they are some of my favorites on here lately. Not so much for what you say, but how you say it. Lots of stoke in them. We need more.

4

Agreed on the secret sauce comment. Usually it’s one guy who so happens to be a proud hand shaper that drops that line. If you drop that on a site like this then you are just spamming the forum with your wares. 

5

Mahalo,

“That’s Entertainment”

Relative new guy.

Knew of Sway’s in the day, just was still actively riding.

Once odds of getting’ launched vs. makin’ it got lopsided.

I did returned to the foal.

Being a black sheep.

You have really have to sell it.

Strange, yes?

I enjoy your and “others” covering  of the cuttin’ edge.

I mean good and valuable information and a network to work with?

Where else???

Make Sways better!

As to “secret sauce”…

Some are not pure in mind or soul.

Innovate not imitate

past it down, advance the craft…

6

…the recipe for the sauce needs to be kept secret …if not it would just be another common everyday sauce !

7

Secret Sauce.      I make reference to it often.      Some folks have expressed frustation, because information is sometimes witheld.     Let me point out that your fervent desire to know something, in no way obligates anyone to enlighten you.       Desire to know, does not entitle you to know.       Speaking for myself, I withold many things.     I also provide considerable information on design, and techniques.     I don’t respond well to petulant demands for information, dimensions, or design parameters.       I’ve always tried to stimulate/challenge people to THINK about solutions.       Not always successful with that.     And for people with the right attitude (according to me) I have freely shared a wealth of information, fin designs, and templates.       So, that’s my version of a rant.     

8

You’ll never learn much by taking short-cuts.

The long road of trial and errors is far more satisfying.

Innovate not imitate.

 

9

Good thread topic, thanks for posting this!

Here are a few of my thoughts on the subject -

Innovation will always be welcomed by some, attacked or ignored by others.  Some people are gonna have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo, or at least in slowing change / progress down.

Secret Sauce is permissible.  If you are a professional in the industry, its almost a given.  Everyone gets to share what they want, and keep to themselves what they don’t.  Sometimes guys who say very little reveal a lot with photos.  I say study the photos, take what you can get from it, and be thankful for the opportunity.

I also say, if you are NOT a professional in the industry, then, when it comes to your own work, why not tell all?  I always try to give thorough descriptions of the boards I make, with dimensions, fin diagrams where applicable, lots of photos, follow up, etc.  I’m not trying to be an expert, just like to share anything I think might be of interest to others, and I like it when others do the same.

Its not nice to trash someone’s party, or thread, but its pretty hard to do if you are being completely ignored.

We’re pretty lenient on rules, we are after all just a forum for surfboard people.  But as probably the most “hands-on” moderator here I can say threads that get out of whack can get edited, shut down, moved to E&B, locked, etc.  However, I also gotta say I think the majority of posters here do pretty good at following the rules without a lot of intervention.

Anyone can make the forum a better place by giving commendation where due, or answering a question (no matter how many times its been asked), or posting a project.  When you do the opposite, give an insult, ignore a question you know the answer to, or just don’t post your projects, you bring the forum down a little, IMO.

One of the biggest dangers to any online forum is when individuals or groups of posters begin to take on a sense of entitlement, i.e. begin thinking its “their forum”, they can dictate what’s acceptible to post or not post, throw insults at other posters, and the like.  Its a public forum, but it takes place on private property.  Unless you’re the property owner, then its best to refrain from the entitlement syndrome, IMO.

The forum is far from perfect, but look at the world around us (its kinda messed up).  All things considered, this is still one of the best places online to learn about surfboard design and construction, and to talk shop with other surfboard people.

I say if you want a better Swaylocks then post up some photos, share what you know, tell us what you did, spread some stoke, give a compliment, and just try to ignore the people that bug you.

10

I don’t have a desire to revolutionize the surfboard. I want to build them they way they were built in the past, using the techniques that were used in the past. I have learned a ton from hanging around here, especially from those with “secret sauce” - it has been experience that a desire to learn the craft and respect for the time and effort put in by those that came before will go a long way. I understand that everything I know about building boards has been shared with me by other board builders who did not have any obligation to share with me but did so anyways. I always view it as a gift.

if I had one gripe with sways it would be…did the search function break? Asking the same basic questions over and over again or one guy starting 10 new threads. There is probably enough info in the archives to answer more than half the questions posted - maybe not a spoon fed answer but plenty to put the pieces together - get in the bay, build, make some mistakes and really learn something. - that said, I have the will power not to click on threads I am not interested in.

11

He’ll I’m the guy who let the cat out of the bag and told you guys what “Secret Sauce” was.  But the site is to difficult to navigate these daze and I got no idea how to post a pic from my I-phone.   Been too busy shaping and trying to relearn how to glass up here in the Northwest to constantly hang on every new and revolutionary idea that blows thru Sways.   I understand how some of you must feel though.  Not getting all those strokes by you fans and groupies must be a bit of a let down.  Heading South in the AM with 9 shorties .  Headed for the Ghetto.  Lowel

12

Not getting all those strokes by you fans and groupies must be a bit of a let down.

Truth…

13

I was surprised that the slip sliding away thread was relegated to errors and bugs , I thought the original poster Thrailkill had a good point that deserved some intense scrutiny , but instead some folks turned it into an attack , it was an attack that served no real purpose except to sooth the attackers bruised egos when someone like Thrailkill does not fold over and regurgitate every bit of hard earned information gained over 60 plus years of experience to them . Who gives these folks the right to demand , expect  or even to wish for anyone to give for free such a treasure trove of knowledge .  Grumpy old men , really , it was the grumpy old men that did it all first , be it surfing those no named outer reefs  or the uncharted islands or the coast of bum fuck nowhere , to building the boards to fit those waves made of wood and foam and fiberglass finding out the hard and painfull way what works and what does not  , the rest of us have just been following . Perhaps the slight , grumpy old men , is a cultural thing , when in Hawaii a local kid will say "hey uncle u won dis wave ’ in Ca its more like , hey get the fuck outta my way you old prick .  Grumpy old men are great , they are the best kind of old men , the ones that have been there done that and don’t suffer fools gladly , I aspire to be a grumpy old man .  

While on the subject of folks I respect on Sways , there is Barry Snyder , he is the epitome of the fiercely independent craftsman and small businessman whose mantra seems to be , fuck the machines , he is innovative and a talented designer  who is generous in his sharing of information and I wish him and all the other hand made surfboard builders , and there are fewer and fewer every year , that can and do hold to their principles the very best , I hope fervently that they survive and turn into grumpy old men .

I dont know Thrailkill or B Snyder but I have seen their work firsthand , work that they have a right to be proud of , work that contains plenty of secret sauce , manufactured by them specificaly for their own personal use .

14

Sways is always changing;  people, topics, attitudes, etc.  Some see it as a sort of social media, others come here and want answers for their problems, many are voyeuristic lurkers.  With the decreased presence of experienced builders (pro and non-pro) here, this forum became kinda blah.  I see a lot of this driven by inexperienced players who not only want answers to their problems, but  so naive they ask for specific step-by-step instructions, where to get items, how much it costs, etc.  I’ve gotten a lot of PM’s like this in addition to those in posts.  Go figure it out for yourself, it’s part of the process of learning this craft as Bill said.  A simple answer was enough to get you in the right direction; but should I buy you a planer, shape your board and glass it too?  This lack of respect has turned off many regulars from the forum.  BUT I believe that Sway’s is the only place of it’s kind where new processes like eps/epoxy, vac bagging, new fin boxes and the like got dialed in very quickly.  I’ve seen it happen again and again over the years.  Better and much faster than the industry can do because of  the number people here with different ways of looking at the problem.  Same is true in design innovation, not economic or hype driven as the industry, it either works or it doesn’t.  Swaylocks is the antithesis of the surf industry, and for that reason only I’m staying here.  Somebody has to be there to call bullshit on their marketing, and every homemade board in the line up does just that.   Wow, I probably need some meds and a nap now.

15

Thank you, Pete. 

All the best

16

I am a total noob to Swaylocks and board building.  But I just want to say thanks to all of the guys on this website who have helped me along the way, either directly or indirectly.  Swaylocks is what inspired me to start building boards and the only reason they come out looking half decent is because of the knowledge shared with us all by guys like Barry S, Thrailkill, Kokua (RIP), huck, resinhead, Mcding, Jim Phillips, ect… The list goes on and on.  I am so pumped that a place like this exists and would be totally bummed if a few idiots got the best of us.  Long live Sways and real craftsmanship. 

17

If not Swaylock’s, then where?

Tomorrow I’m getting a second hand Gast vac pump found on fleabay.

Spent the weekend looking for Vac Bagging info specific to surf.

  Just about anything worth knowing on how to put it to use I found in the archives of SWAYLOCK’S.

You gotta work at it but it’s there. 

Some younger folks have had the(mis)fortune to have been brought up wth instant access to all information and expect it to always be so. 

Old grumps had to figure sh!t out by trial and error.

 

 

 

18

That is my point Uncle Grumpy.

The site is a great resource, but some of the best posters are leaving.  Why? Because they aren’t having fun here anymore. 

My take is that it is the chest thumping egos that stop the fun. 

I direct this to Bill and Barry, since they have joined the conversation in favor of keeping secrets, while at the same time saying they know the answer.  What is the point of doing that?  Just to boast that you are smarter than the rest of us?  Bill, you wrote that you share with those that you think are worthy.  An I appreciate that you have found me on that list.  (well, up to now that is) =-)  But when you openly exclude some, while saying that you share with others, feelings get hurt, members get pissed, and then they leave.

I’m hoping that we can get the good posters to stop leaving.

There was a book a while back “All I really need to know I learned in Kindergarden”  It was about the importance of the simple rules of life.  Play nice, Share, Smile.

This is a long winded wayof saying that if you want to share, do so.  If you don’t, then don’t.  If you want to share discretely, then do it by P.M.  But if you just want to advertise, then do it on the surfshop forum.  And if you want to strut, and thump your chest, then please do it on the Surfer BB Forum.  It is the norm over there.

Seriously, for the site to stay healthy, something has to change.  Please be part of the solution.

19

I don’t come here that often, but here are a couple of observations:

  1. Swaylock's collective population sense of humor has just about disappeared from when I first joined about a decade ago or so.  People are taking themselves way too seriously.  Have fun and no one has all the correct answers.
  2. When you (rhetorically) find fault in someone else's ideas, don't cut them off at the knees.  I've seen just too much of that.  It causes me, at least, to be a bit gun shy of posting ideas.
  3. It's like being in the line-up; smile, be nice, encourage others (particularly those that might be struggling a bit), share waves and you'll have more fun.

YMMV

 

20

Its amazing how far surfboard building has come for the backyarder / beginner.  There is so much information out there for free that its hard to even take it all in.  If anything there is too much info now…so much so that it becomes a challenge to wade through all the bad info.  Not only that but the materials are now widely available.  It wasn’t that long ago that the entire industry was shrowded in secrecy.  

Just to give you an idea how different things are now, there is a guy who will remain nameless who 20 years ago charged me $300 for a longboard blank.  At the time there was no means for a young guy on the East Coast to get his hands on a blank let alone a single longboard blank.  I’d bought a box of shortboard blanks from Clark but just wanted a single longboard blank.  There was no internet.  There was no network of likeminded ameture board builders.  I plunked down my $300 and made my first longboard.  Fast forward 20 years and I see this same guy who was borderline hostile towards backyarders 20 years ago on the web offering shaping lessons.

Enjoy the stuff thats here and don’t sweat the small stuff.