haaa'' i haven't been in my shaping room for over a year (ill disturb the spiders)
wot ya thinking
i like the board stu Kennedy had under his feet the other day
nothing wrong with dans dble ender approach for hybrid h p
bottoms dbles into dble out the back looks like it works
i see finally someone realizes wot i have said since the eighty's'' fit the fin on the channel edge
I figure since foam has been taken out from the stringer line with the double concave, I’ll increase the angle to the rail bevel to add some volume there to compensate.
This board will have a bit more of a pinched rail (nothing extreme, just a touch more then my normal shortboard) because of the parallel rail line.
... but it's the rocker, the rocker's what i'm most excited about.
.....some PVA's (most of them) are not waterproof.....I use DorisExpress (German), and they make an additive that waterproofs the glue ....maybe the Qcell/cabosil will waterproof the PVA ?......although , Ive never used PVA to seal the actual shaped blank...........ask Huie , he got more moves than a chessboard.
for sure Yorky.....epoxy/Qcell primer and epoxy lamination is a combination that's hard to beat......and the Qcell/epoxy prime coat sands nice with a 320 grit before the lam , and still keys in solid as.......I wipe the prime coat over with a fine sponge , after squeeging it in , especially around the rails , to keep it nice and uniform all over......what density is the EPS ?
I'm interested in your thinking about the parallel rails and deep channels. In my mind the parallel rails and wide tail will aid speed and the channels will tighten up the tail because they'll slow down rail to rail response. Do you have extra rocker or is this a small wave speedster for above the lip surfing? Or have I got it all wrong?
There is quite a bit of rail line rocker between the feet.
Cause It's got a deep single concave plus the double down the middle and parallel rails, the extra rail rocker is an important thing i'm thinking.
This board has no tail flip, it's a constant ark (rail line) rocker running off the tail.
I used the 'Golden ratio' formula for the rail line rocker increasing toward the nose (the nose flip rocker was taken from a rocker that I got cut out of a sector of an oval)
I'm really relying on the wing, tail shape and the foam taken out from the channels to compensate for the consistant rail rocker out the tail.
The bottom shape is a combination of arks flowing through the channels and out of the tail.
I didn't expect the middle concave out the back to be so deep, but the radius ark (I chose) dictated the depth.
Red your statement 'the channels will tighten up the tail because they'll slow down rail to rail response.' It feels correct but can you elaborate on this more pls (mainly slow down the rail to rail response)
There is quite a bit of rail line rocker between the feet.
Cause It's got a deep single concave plus the double down the middle and parallel rails, the extra rail rocker is an important thing i'm thinking.
This board has no tail flip, it's a constant ark (rail line) rocker running off the tail.
I used the 'Golden ratio' formula for the rail line rocker increasing toward the nose (the nose flip rocker was taken from a rocker that I got cut out of a sector of an oval)
I'm really relying on the wing, tail shape and the foam taken out from the channels to compensate for the consistant rail rocker out the tail.
The bottom shape is a combination of arks flowing through the channels and out of the tail.
I didn't expect the middle concave out the back to be so deep, but the radius ark (I chose) dictated the depth.
Red your statement 'the channels will tighten up the tail because they'll slow down rail to rail response.' It feels correct but can you elaborate on this more pls (mainly slow down the rail to rail response)
You got it all right Red, as far a I know.
Cheers
Damn that "Future of Sways" thread. This post is what it's all about. Brain fodder for sure. Thanks for your detailed response. Made me think about a new board in the quiver for Sri Lanka in June.
In my experience, heavy channels in the tail tend to hold the tail flat in steep waves. The result for me has been the tail getting sucked up the face in the tube because I can't seem to get that rear edge in. So I extrapolated from that. But a surfer of your talent should be able to stomp on that tail and make it obey!
Any chance of elaborating on the way you used the golden ratio curve.
as in the actual practical method?
did you scale draw it and make a howire template or use a projector to blow it up on a wall and trace it?
As a maths science teacher and surf addicted wanna be shaper i am super excited by this thread, but have only read up to this part so far. LLOOOVVVEEE it! if there was a build comp on the go you would be a shoe in!!!
I started a thread on a 'shortboard rocker' topic, but no one here really gave a shit, golden ratio and stuff. I through questions, theories out there, but, it became a joke, so i had it removed.
People think there surfboard secrets should go to the grave with them. Maybe if you have a shit load of money to invest in a stupid business venture with little return, keep your secrets.
I make surfboards so I can make surfboards so I can ride them. Not for money.
...So, what are you doing with your rockers??
'This board, there are a lot of ratio numbers, radius arks etc. The whole board is build with numbers before I picked up the planer (the most part of it).
If talk is cheep? then?
... Check CWRun, his thread is a ripper 'Build Thread:Dbl Stringer EPS'
Add friend me on face book Adryan York and we can talk surfboard rockers and stuff all you like.
I think we posted about the same time, Did My reply to Red answer your question?
Yep the center channel turned out deeper then expected.
We're going to 2 back fins on the apex of the 3" wide center concave. Like a split back 'thruster fin' or like a 'quad' with the back fins rediculously close together. Using the leading edge of where the 4 1/2" (base) thruster back fin would be as the leading edge for the 2 smaller back fins.
These 2 smaller back fins will be using fcs1 dual plugs along side the standard thruster setup using Futures plugs.
According to the pictured container and one retailer, regarding Parfix wood glue:
Parfix PVA is a PVA based adhesive suitable for general interior woodworking joinery and other craft uses. It is non-toxic, will not stain timber and dries clear.
High strength
Clear drying
Water clean up
If it is like Titebond III, it could be water resistant after curing. I could not find any information about water resistance for Parfix. Could be an interesting EPS sealing method. I wonder if you could mix it with gypsum (calcium sulfate) to thicken it? Gypsum is white but, is it white enough?
(EDIT: Maybe you could cut the gypsum with titanium dioxide powder to make it whiter. Maybe just use titanium dioxide powder only.)
I like playing with the Golden Ratio in design methods. Golden Ratio to increase forward rail line? How are you applying the GR (that is, if it is not your secret sauce)?
sorry for being late to the party damned radiation kick my backside the hot days.
F ins we need to do a bit more talk about the placement no toe inn 2 deg cant no more
we can offset the tabs to make it easier for fin face to line up more talk .
NO do not use that sh##t kayu has given you the only way
e p s uses less than most urethane
put some white pigment in the slurry when you glass with the bright resin it will come out snow white and last pretty well
see ya in a cple of days
jumped the gun i did :), sealed (sort of) lol, (only sealed because the tape I lay down when puttin on the carbon strips, well the tape pull the beads out-hate that shit ha)
I'll wait for your email before I do any work with the fin placement.
I sealed it, mixed the pictured glue with just cabocil, it went on good, not as easy to work in as epoxy and qcell but a hell of a lot easier to clean up and no mask, which is always pleasing. some would call this a lame effort in sealing a blank as the pits are very visable, oh well.
The main reason for sealing this board is so when i tape up the carbon lines, the tape wont rip off little beads (that really pisses me off)............. come to think of it, i'll go get some painters light stick tape tomorrow, as I plan to put some water color on the board (something really basic ha)
Great thread man. I am enjoying following along as I am starting a very similar build (square nose version EPS with two high density stringers 12" apart). Are the outside edges of your tail as low as the center channel or do they almost form a Vee? Do you mind me asking what your center line tail rocker came out too? Cant wait to see how this comes out for you especially with the NPJ fin setup. Keep the posts coming!
Huie, talk to me.
what are we gunna build, Autumn's a great season for some R & D
haaa'' i haven't been in my shaping room for over a year (ill disturb the spiders)
wot ya thinking
i like the board stu Kennedy had under his feet the other day
nothing wrong with dans dble ender approach for hybrid h p
bottoms dbles into dble out the back looks like it works
i see finally someone realizes wot i have said since the eighty's'' fit the fin on the channel edge
cheers huie
now retired
I'll shape it. Leave the spiders at bay.
he was on a 5'7" x 18 1/2" x 2 1/4" from memory (definitely 5’7” though).
Stu is strong and a bit heavier then me (and probably the hottest surfer on the planet right now).
*Keep it compact.
*Straight parallel rails
imgres-2.jpg
i got a bit to say about this just be patient
and we are not using those horrible bling fins full of soric
this is the bit that has my attention leave it with me i can expand on this
IMG_2226_zps84dc9ea0.jpg
cheers huie
now retired
cool, I'm frothing.
Stick with the channels, with out the spine coming out the tail block.
IMG_4135.jpg
just glued this one up
IMG_4161.jpg
thanks for a little bit of inspiration tom.
https://vimeo.com/channels/268550/33234007#sthash.5FCJhnau.dpuf
... bit of viewing whilst having fun wit the planer.
a bit of refinement from to last build in the below pic.
FINS and placement will be a point of concern right now.
IMG_4174.jpg
IMG_4325.jpg
Thanks for the inspiration yorky.
Vimeo Led to a screenshot capture of this pic, which sums it all up.
crutchthrow - Copy.jpg
Here's the outline Huie, with the narrow double concave in a deep single
5'6" x 18 1/2"
IMG_4326.jpg
IMG_4329.jpg
IMG_4328.jpg
the double in the guts leads out the back into a triple (of sorts).
Huie, I'm 70kg. If it's ok can you make me a set of thruster fins, Please :)
Futures... (your choice of template)
IMG_4334.jpg
IMG_4330.jpg
check to little spine under the front foot, the doulble as it fades into the triple.
I like that.
I figure since foam has been taken out from the stringer line with the double concave, I’ll increase the angle to the rail bevel to add some volume there to compensate.
This board will have a bit more of a pinched rail (nothing extreme, just a touch more then my normal shortboard) because of the parallel rail line.
... but it's the rocker, the rocker's what i'm most excited about.
IMG_4343.jpg
IMG_4344.jpg
IMG_4340.jpg
Why was this moved to Errors & Bugs?
I thought people wanted more build threads and pictures...
Swaylocks Surfboard Design Forum: thoughts & theories ... practical & theoretical
RAIL PROFILE http://bgboard.blogspot.com/2014/03/march-82014-afterr-seeing-recent.html
It is possible to exist in the two worlds.
Or a tread can exist in two discussions.
Afraid so…
A lurker of the depths.
Love the work Y.
Watching and learning EPS and epoxy right now.
Big Mahalo…
I would rather be someone's shot of whiskey, than everyone's cup of tea.
www.mattysurfboards.com
i would like to talk to people who care about pushing performance surfboards forward.
maybe there in here?
... I think a few people are a little sour at a few things I directed at them. It's just in jest... ?
Huck if you think it's best to move our thread go for it.
5'6" x 18 1/2" x 2 1/4" (2 3/8 rail pinched)
tail width is 15 3/4"
Wp width is 18 1/2"
nose width is 13 1/8"
(i have fin marks on the pics, there just visual guides and the lines will be covered by Futures plugs)
I'm thinking
3 1/8" x 10 1/2" tow between 3/16 and 1/4 (7/32) over 4 1/2 fin base.
... Yeah so if anyone want's to chim in as to where to put the fins?
IMG_4347.jpg
IMG_4350.jpg
IMG_4351.jpg
has anyone had any problems sealing the eps with a mix of
wood glue, qcell and cabosil.
?
IMG_4352.jpg
http://www.currumbinwoodworks.com.au/
laminating in epoxy... I always used epoxy and qcell to seal in the past, might go back to doing that.
...Idea was, well I got all this glue haha, and It's cheaper.
what would you do? ditch the glue in pictured??
Huie will be back in a few days going to seal it soon
http://www.currumbinwoodworks.com.au/
vh grade foam.
the sponge after squeeging is a good one.
already jumped in and used the pva glue i have.
Start again
cheers huie
now retired
Wood glue is kinda yellow in color isn't it?
White Elmer's glue dries more clear.
Board is looking great by the way.
Been painting a bunch of Tomo's lately.
Similar tails.
Lots of concaves going on there.
Barry Snyder
Surfboards made by hand. Not machine.
http://barrysnyderdesigns.com
Instagram @barrysnyderdesigns
By memory the last one I did with the glue seamed clear... I'll roll the dice and we'll find out.
Yeah lots of concaves, there everywhere.
might throw a couple of deck channels in too haha.
Thanks
Yorky,
I'm interested in your thinking about the parallel rails and deep channels. In my mind the parallel rails and wide tail will aid speed and the channels will tighten up the tail because they'll slow down rail to rail response. Do you have extra rocker or is this a small wave speedster for above the lip surfing? Or have I got it all wrong?
Respect
red
I want this board to be an allround shortboard.
There is quite a bit of rail line rocker between the feet.
Cause It's got a deep single concave plus the double down the middle and parallel rails, the extra rail rocker is an important thing i'm thinking.
This board has no tail flip, it's a constant ark (rail line) rocker running off the tail.
I used the 'Golden ratio' formula for the rail line rocker increasing toward the nose (the nose flip rocker was taken from a rocker that I got cut out of a sector of an oval)
I'm really relying on the wing, tail shape and the foam taken out from the channels to compensate for the consistant rail rocker out the tail.
The bottom shape is a combination of arks flowing through the channels and out of the tail.
I didn't expect the middle concave out the back to be so deep, but the radius ark (I chose) dictated the depth.
Red your statement 'the channels will tighten up the tail because they'll slow down rail to rail response.' It feels correct but can you elaborate on this more pls (mainly slow down the rail to rail response)
You got it all right Red, as far a I know.
Cheers
So good it's worth repeating.
Damn that "Future of Sways" thread. This post is what it's all about. Brain fodder for sure. Thanks for your detailed response. Made me think about a new board in the quiver for Sri Lanka in June.
In my experience, heavy channels in the tail tend to hold the tail flat in steep waves. The result for me has been the tail getting sucked up the face in the tube because I can't seem to get that rear edge in. So I extrapolated from that. But a surfer of your talent should be able to stomp on that tail and make it obey!
Any chance of elaborating on the way you used the golden ratio curve.
as in the actual practical method?
did you scale draw it and make a howire template or use a projector to blow it up on a wall and trace it?
As a maths science teacher and surf addicted wanna be shaper i am super excited by this thread, but have only read up to this part so far. LLOOOVVVEEE it! if there was a build comp on the go you would be a shoe in!!!
@reclaim_surf formerly Skatement
(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
Happy to.
I started a thread on a 'shortboard rocker' topic, but no one here really gave a shit, golden ratio and stuff. I through questions, theories out there, but, it became a joke, so i had it removed.
People think there surfboard secrets should go to the grave with them. Maybe if you have a shit load of money to invest in a stupid business venture with little return, keep your secrets.
I make surfboards so I can make surfboards so I can ride them. Not for money.
...So, what are you doing with your rockers??
'This board, there are a lot of ratio numbers, radius arks etc. The whole board is build with numbers before I picked up the planer (the most part of it).
If talk is cheep? then?
... Check CWRun, his thread is a ripper 'Build Thread:Dbl Stringer EPS'
Add friend me on face book Adryan York and we can talk surfboard rockers and stuff all you like.
Cheers
sent a message to you on facey, i hope;)
http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/2015-bc-thread-my-version-blendingcurves...
http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/sunnyround-56-193-23-fixing-lots-stuff-u...
and there are a few other threads i have done, not sure the easiest way to search them.
@reclaim_surf formerly Skatement
(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
sent a message to you on facey, i hope;)
http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/2015-bc-thread-my-version-blendingcurves...
http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/sunnyround-56-193-23-fixing-lots-stuff-u...
and there are a few other threads i have done, not sure the easiest way to search them.
@reclaim_surf formerly Skatement
(Adam) Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
Interesting bottom! It looks like the center channel is deeper than the side ones? What is the rocker doing? Where did you put the curves?
I think we posted about the same time, Did My reply to Red answer your question?
Yep the center channel turned out deeper then expected.
We're going to 2 back fins on the apex of the 3" wide center concave. Like a split back 'thruster fin' or like a 'quad' with the back fins rediculously close together. Using the leading edge of where the 4 1/2" (base) thruster back fin would be as the leading edge for the 2 smaller back fins.
These 2 smaller back fins will be using fcs1 dual plugs along side the standard thruster setup using Futures plugs.
According to the pictured container and one retailer, regarding Parfix wood glue:
Parfix PVA is a PVA based adhesive suitable for general interior woodworking joinery and other craft uses. It is non-toxic, will not stain timber and dries clear.
If it is like Titebond III, it could be water resistant after curing. I could not find any information about water resistance for Parfix. Could be an interesting EPS sealing method. I wonder if you could mix it with gypsum (calcium sulfate) to thicken it? Gypsum is white but, is it white enough?
(EDIT: Maybe you could cut the gypsum with titanium dioxide powder to make it whiter. Maybe just use titanium dioxide powder only.)
I like playing with the Golden Ratio in design methods. Golden Ratio to increase forward rail line? How are you applying the GR (that is, if it is not your secret sauce)?
Swaylocks Surfboard Design Forum: thoughts & theories ... practical & theoretical
RAIL PROFILE http://bgboard.blogspot.com/2014/03/march-82014-afterr-seeing-recent.html
hold the phone''
seems like i let you go you get out of hand (-:
sorry for being late to the party damned radiation kick my backside the hot days.
F ins we need to do a bit more talk about the placement no toe inn 2 deg cant no more
we can offset the tabs to make it easier for fin face to line up more talk .
NO do not use that sh##t kayu has given you the only way
e p s uses less than most urethane
put some white pigment in the slurry when you glass with the bright resin it will come out snow white and last pretty well
see ya in a cple of days
cheers huie
now retired
jumped the gun i did :), sealed (sort of) lol, (only sealed because the tape I lay down when puttin on the carbon strips, well the tape pull the beads out-hate that shit ha)
I'll wait for your email before I do any work with the fin placement.
talk in a few.
It's shaped, I have never been to fusy when it comes to a ultra smooth finish.
I left a lot more volume then i would of in the past for my own boards.
IMG_4355.jpg
IMG_4356.jpg
IMG_4360.jpg
IMG_4353.jpg
yes that is more volume than you usually do i like it now all i gota do is get ya to increase the nose
love it
cheers huie
now retired
I sealed it, mixed the pictured glue with just cabocil, it went on good, not as easy to work in as epoxy and qcell but a hell of a lot easier to clean up and no mask, which is always pleasing. some would call this a lame effort in sealing a blank as the pits are very visable, oh well.
The main reason for sealing this board is so when i tape up the carbon lines, the tape wont rip off little beads (that really pisses me off)............. come to think of it, i'll go get some painters light stick tape tomorrow, as I plan to put some water color on the board (something really basic ha)
IMG_4365.jpg
IMG_4367.jpg
Bit of red water paint put on with a roller.
Next, add some carbon.
IMG_4372.jpg
IMG_4373.jpg
IMG_4376.jpg
IMG_4377.jpg
oh'' oh' i can see that in the water by sunday if not before (-:
still waiting for the templates )-:
cheers huie
now retired
thought I'd leave that with you. talk soon
I was talking to Neil Purchase Jr in the surf about the split fin, and after watching him surf out there. I'm a beiliever in the concept.
After shaping this board it just looked right to put a split (thruster style) back fin on it.
So Huie, I'm looking forward to fine tuning this thing.
pic is one of Neals magic boards.
images-4.jpg
Not much happening today.
Just added a purple stripe.
IMG_4382.jpg
IMG_4381.jpg
Yorky,
Great thread man. I am enjoying following along as I am starting a very similar build (square nose version EPS with two high density stringers 12" apart). Are the outside edges of your tail as low as the center channel or do they almost form a Vee? Do you mind me asking what your center line tail rocker came out too? Cant wait to see how this comes out for you especially with the NPJ fin setup. Keep the posts coming!
Clint Runyon
I shaped the board as a single concave first with the deep part between the feet running into a flat on the tail block.
Then added the extra stuff after that.
I don't know that the tail rocker off the stringer line came out as, I'll go down and measure it.
the rail line rocker is a 20ft radius ark straight off the tail with no flip at all.
I spoke to master Huie yesterday about the back split fins (thruster style). thats his department, keep tweeking it untill we get it right.
... Your high density sringers should work well 12" apart and will look pretty cool too. (will you be doing the build on here?)
Tail rocker, along stringer line (inside the 1/4" deep 3"wide concave) is 2 1/4"
Nose rocker, is 4 1/2"
concave depth is 5/16" before centre concaves are added.
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