Yeah I def find the chambering process to be a drag. I'm plugging away at it tho.
I went back and re-read the whole thread, easy to forget what a crazy journey it was to get it to this point. I actually had forgotten what an absolute beast this thing was to shape, and how much I stressed every step of the way.
I also had forgotten that I hand shaped by eye, without a template, which was kinda in keeping with the way a lot of these old wood boards were actually shaped.
I'm still real nervous about trying to clamp the pieces back together, they all twisted and turned once I cut them apart. Hopefully the chambering will make them flexible enough to bend 'em back to fit together again.
The board is rough shaped, but pretty close to the finished shape, so there is not a lot of room for movement - the pieces HAVE to go back together pretty precisely. Like I say, this has me stressing a bit. Thankfully I have lots of good clamps.
Still not totally decided on the stringer issue, but I'm kinda leaning toward just a glue line. Just because adding the stringers will add to the work, and at this point I'm not sure I want to do that. Especially if I have to really fight the pieces in the clamping stage.
I would consider just clamping and glueing two pieces at a time. Maybe work from the outside towards the center or possibly from the center outward. When I glue up foam on a center split blank, I will usually glue the stringer to one half of the blank and then glue the other half of the blank to the stringer after the glue has set on the first half. Easier to manage and line the foam up to my rockered stringer etc. Might be more manageable for you to glue up say the two outside rail pieces on each side and then the center. Then glue three pieces at one time instead of five.
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So re-reading through this thread has really been a trip for me. This has been an ambitious undertaking for me, and looking at the pics I kinda get swept up in the emotion of those comments posted in real time, as I was struggling with that huge mass of wood. And especially the photos, wow. I no longer have those photos, forgot they even exist. The only time I have ever bought a bigger piece of wood is a wood house beam.
Now WideAwake bought the other blank, and kinda seemed to me like he breezed through it (compared to me!), making a big heavy (finished weight 47 lbs) hot curl finless wood board. And he chambered it. He had to have wrestled with some of the same issues I did, and I am.
Anyway, some of the comments got me thinking about stringers, for the visual effect. Initially, I really wanted the "monolith" effect to emphasize that this beast came from one single piece of wood.
But now that its cut into sections, I gotta admit a few stringers would add a very nice touch. But I didn't know where to get stringer wood big enough, and then I got to thinking: all I need is a narrow strip around the edges. I could piece together some small strips around the perimeter of each section, and if I work carefully it would still look visually the same as one continuous stringer piece.
I dug through my junk and found a box of model airplane balsa I bought at a yardsale. I think I've got enough to do a 1/4" balsa stringer down the middle, and a 3/32" stringer in 2 other joints, maybe all 4 of the remaining joints. So now I'm thinking about this, and I don't think it would be very difficult.
Thnx mcding I def won't try to glue up more than 1 joint at a time.
Thank you Greg. This thread has actually been a great help for me, and I have gone through and re-read it numerous times in the past few days.
Resurrecting this old project wasn't easy, and I find myself asking How did I get in the middle of this one? Then when I go back through the process, I remember how absolutely blown away I was to come across this opportunity.
I was initially surprised that no one else jumped at the chance when Bill mentioned he had these 2 solid wood surfboard blanks. Maybe everyone knew what a headache it would actually be?? But really, for me the shaping wasn't a headache. The chambering is.
Its pretty well done now, but filling the voids is, once again, slow and cumbersome work. It feels like no end in sight, even tho I make a little progress every day.
At the time I bought the blank, there was some hope I might not have to chamber it. But at 47 lbs. unglassed, I felt I had no choice. So here I am.
Brian Bent posted a pic of him riding a solid redwood hot curl that weighed 80 lbs, and I was completely blown away!! 80 lbs!!!
And truthfully, I'm still pretty surprised that this opportunity presented itself. I think maybe partially because I worked in wood to a great extent before retiring, that I got so excited about this.
I posted a few pics on facebook, and from the response I guess a lot of people just have no clue how rare it is to find a solid slab of old growth vertical grain clear western red cedar in a singular chunk large enough to carve a 9 foot surfboard from it. I mean, where would you even go to try to find such a thing in today's world??? I'm still kinda blown away by what a rare find it was.
And I'm still hoping one day Bill finds out a little more to the back story. All he knew at the time IIRC was that a realtor friend of his came across these two wood blanks, and that they had laid in someone's barn/ garage for at least 20 years (but I'm thinking they are much older than that, more like 70 years old).
I mean holy cow, there has to be a story to who rough cut these bad boys out of what must have been a huge tree trunk using a big ol' chainsaw, clearly with the intent of making them into surfboards. Who even DOES that?? Maybe I should make one up, just for entertainment purposes?? That might be as much fun as shaping it was, definitely more fun than chambering, haha.
So yeah, the actual process of trying to make a functional surf craft from it has turned out to be pretty daunting. Moreso than all the other complex builds I've gotten through.
I'm sure there are people much better equipped for the task, with a large and well appointed workshop at their disposal, and all the best tools. But just using my little shop and my simple tools, I've gotten this far. So I keep giving myself pep talks, as I would really like to keep this project moving.
Which is a long winded way of saying thanks for the moral support, I'll take all I can get!!
I hate it when glue acts like a lubricant while clamping. Some of my better and more embarrassing curse fests have occured during such processes, and getting those dowel guiding pins slightly wrongly located curse fest x 10.
On a somehwat similar note, I have painted a relatively thick layer of epoxy on my long cruiser Skateboard deck with tape dam installed around perimeter, then sprinkled it with coarse brown sugar and spread it around. Once cured, water dissolved the sugar and the surface left behind is rougher than 36 grit, and shreds my shoes.
Buying clear grip tape would have been easier and quicker, but I had the sugar and epoxy on hand.
My neighbor has a fat tire electric bike. Those inner tubes he throws out rather than repairing, have proved amazingly resilient, way more so than the inner tubes back from my youth, and have so many potential uses. Cut cross sections straight, or diagonally to get certain diameters/ and pressures applied. I use small sections cut just a bit wider than rubber bands, to keep my disc brake pads from rattling in the calipers. They've survived many mountain passes so far.
I am not planning on venting this, and in fact will probably end up sealing the 6 lengthwise sections from each other. I don't see it as being an issue, but always like to hear from those who have built chambered boards if there were any issues from venting or not venting.
Thanks for checking out my thread and for any comments, encouragement, or suggestions. The salt tip on glue ups sounds like a winner! Its been a rather tedious project from the time I began the chambering process. Up til then it was challenging but fun. Chambering not so much.
But then again I"m not likely to have another project like this one in this lifetime, so I keep telling myself, just get though it, haha.
That's some thread and I'm glad you're still making progress. I also watched the Gene Cooper thread. Now I'm keeping track of this one. Now, I are engineer, so I have questions...
The chambering was good idea and you seem to have done it well. But what good can it do to fill the chambers with light density foam? It won't make the overall board any stronger - think of the bending or the compressive strength of each of those blocks - it's next to nothing. That foam is likely open cell EPS, so if water gets in, it will spread and saturate each block it leaks into. I'm sure it took a goodly amount of time that could have been spent elsewhere, although time spent on this project is probably therapeutic all by itself. Maybe the good the filling did is that it allowed (made) you coat the inside of each chamber, thus making each chamber (somewhat) waterproof.
What will be the glass schedule? It just needs to hold all the pieces together and waterproof the lot, so I'd think single 4 ounce top and bottom would be enough. You'll need to seal the blank first, as did Gene. Epoxy resin?
thanks Honolulu - the foam is for strength and for leaving less actual air inside. It is kind of a pain in the rear, not really difficult, but tedious as I have said. I have seen it done, and wanted to try it myself.
With this much air in the chambering, I wouldn't feel comfortable without a vent - unless the voids were filled with foam. So thats what I'm doing. You blow it off as adding very little compressive strength, but I disagree. It actually adds a lot. This is packing foam, it is light and strong. There is a reason that packing foam is used in protecting merchandise and it wouldn't be used so much if it didn't have compressive strength.
And yes it CAN take in water, but I know from my experience with hollow wood surfboards that a completely hollow board will take in more water, and have greater air pressure, than a foam board. I am not worried too much about taking in water from a ding - the wood shell is pretty strong, this thing will not ding easily, especially with the foam inserts. And if it does take in water, I can pretty well guarantee the water will not spread throughout the inside as fast and as thorough as it would in a hollow board.
I will probably glass with 4 oz. cloth and epoxy resin.
Well the packing foam inserts are in, anyway, so my mild objection to them is moot. I'll just toss out that if the deck is susceptible to denting from your knees, heel or whatever, the inserts won't help more than a minimal amount, and could hardly be expected to transfer any stress to the bottom "skin".
But, I'm waiting to see some contrasting stringers! A light wood stringer or three (pine is readily available, straight grain if you avoid the knotty stuff, inexpensive and stains well) could really things set off, and they don't all have to be the same color. You might try, if you haven't already, testing some epoxy on your basic material, and some on a bit of whatever other wood you have.
Another thing that comes to mind, from recently refinishing the top of my wife's solid maple dresser, is that you can stain the wood, deepen the natural color (I did it with the maple), redden it, make it a little more "brown", or lighten it by treating it with oxalic acid. Just test before you go all out. I think a water-based stain would be the ticket, or the resin may not adhere well. Wood has to be uniformly good and dry both before stain and after.
I don't think his intent in using the foam inserts has much if anything to do with strengthening the deck. Maybe he will say different, but most guys are usually trying to affect the overall ride or paddle of the board. An attempt to get away from that "hollow" feel. You are right in recommending a test before applying resin over anything stain. Epoxy is pretty safe, but Poly "pulls" the stain. Pine is cheap, but way too soft. Anyway he does it is gonna look great. But that slab of wood is pretty beautiful in itself. I don't know that adding anything to it would make it any more Beautiful than it already is. That fin with a Bead on it is also very nice. Just my two cents and opinion only.
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Thnx McDing and Honolulu, not too much interest in this thread right now, what with the world as we know it unraveling and all, so I'm tickled to get some response. I wish the foam inserts were done, but not so. The chambering is mostly done, and the inserts about half done.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around how anyone could have an objection, mild or otherwise, to me stuffing some foam in my hollow wood chambered board, but like I say, I'm just glad to have you here.
Maybe it's just the engineer in you. My brother is a draftsman / designer, and he did a lot of design work on the rides at Disneyworld. He said they brought some of the tougher projects to him, and he would say, Why don't you have the engineers work on that? His boss told him I take it to the engineers if I want to hear why it can't be done, I take it to you if I just want to get it done. He used to have a saying about engineers "over-technical under-practical". Just funnin' with ya.
I have experience with hollow wood boards, and I can tell you straight up that one tiny leak can nearly ruin a board in one surf session. Venting should help, but all the vents say they have to be inspected and replaced periodically. I'm guessing because the fabric can clog over time.
And screw vents run the risk of not sealing 100% every time, so thats the equivalent of a leak. I know this because I had a screw vent in my 9' 6" hollow wood gun, and one surf session resulted in enough damage that its gonna require a serious rebuild, because the screw vent must have allowed a tiny leak, and water sucked into it.
Like I said my goals in putting the foam in were mostly to fill the voids so its not all air in there, and to add a bit of strength. Some people say Chinese food doesn't really fill them up, they're hungry again an hour later. But people still eat Chinese food, and no one objects. So if my foam doesn't add as much strength as say, leaving the board solid wood, but I choose to do it anyway, then....
I don't think denting the deck is gonna be an issue, its about 5/8" solid wood, its not like a veneer on a compsand (even tho technically the board is a composite sandwich construction). But the foam will definitely add strength, I have zero doubt in my mind about that. Its tough stuff. I know this from working with it as I fill the chambers. Some of it is soft and spongy, but most of it is pretty rigid. Its all pretty light too. As far as the hollow sound and feel, that isn't an issue for me.
I went to Hobby Lobby to buy some balsa, and the power went out cuz some braniac overturned a big rig into a power line.
People kinda gone crazy here. Driving crazy, acting crazy. I went to Lowes and long lines buying toilet paper. I went to get gas at Costco and there was a two block long line of cars just to get into the parking lot. In ten minutes of driving I had three very near accidents, people turning right from the left lane, stopping mid lane for no reason other then I guess to think about where they wanted to go, just kinda crazy.
Anyway, I might be back to using balsa strips, or maybe I will try again later at the hobby shop, if I feel emboldened enough to brave the living dead roaming the streets out there.
I don't think I would add stain, the grain is pretty nice as it is. I do want at least one light stringer, but we'll see how it goes. I might just glue it up. I could add some pigment and use resin to glue the sections together, that might be cool. Black or maybe a light color, like tan.
I actually dug all 6 sections out of my garage where my cats had been abusing them (they have zero respect for my stuff, the world is their playground), knocking them over, probably spraying then with eau d'tomcat, scratching their claws, etc. Wrecking crew pictures below. Fortunately I left a little meat in the rough shape to hopefully take the skin off & clean it up.
I will try to get some update pics up soon, if I can muster a little progress.
Thanks again to anyone reading, and double thanks to those who have replied :-)
Whether a hollow wood board is ruined by a leak is entirely dependent on whether it was sealed or not on the interior, and how well it was sealed, and how quickly/effectively one can drain it and dry it. My thumb screw nose vents are positioned to allow not only ease of pressure equalization while in the water, but for maximum drainage when put on end. I also allow room to stuff a rope wick in there and get that last portion of water in the nose.
The guys that taught me their HWS method would barely wipe one layer of epoxy on the rough interior structure, before adding the deck planks. Time/labor was a factor as was added weight and total epoxy used. After the board was finished one could unscrew the vent and smell raw cedar and or pine if that was used. Never was wood glue used, but always epoxy.
Secondary bonding issues with amine blush and epoxy is a concern, so a simple sealing of the interior before laying on the deck planks/panel(s) can greatly increase the work load, or negatively affect bond strength if ignored. If amine blush's secondary bond inhibation is ignored, then once can find their deck planks lifting off the structure. Even the supposed 'blush free' epoxies blush with enough humidity and mechanical tooth is always good. The chemical bonding window of epoxy is too short to work within building hws, at least on most of the stages.
My only HWS which was ruined, was the one I used end grain balsa inside of for the stomp areas. I had fiberglassed the interior panels, but only the exterior's rails. I did not notice my knee had split some cedar on the deck under the wax, and water got inside and the balsa soaked up all the water like a sponge so I could not hear it sloshing around inside, and turned to mush. I also blame having used some 5 minute epoxy( which is not waterproof) when I did notice the damage but was frothing with excellent conditions and did not want to use any of the back up boards or want to wait for regular epoxy to cure.
My latest HWS, is completely sealed inside, having wiped each dry wood interior portion more than once with epoxy until it appeared it could absorb no more, and sanding inbetween coats. No less than 3 coats on the less thirsty portions of the wood and upto 5 coats on the thirsty, all sanded inbetween. Huge amount of extra work considering the 75+ holes drilled.
All interior panels are fiberglassed too. Almost all of the interior wiping before laying the deck, was the thirsty interior stringer holes I drilled after joining them to the hull panel. I made special tools to get inside the holes easily for sanding, and also for applying the sealing epoxy designed for minimal drippings during.
If I blow air into thes latest HWS, and smell that which comes back out, it smells like epoxy, not cedar. I have a thumbscrew vent in the nose and a custom brass vent in the tail requiring a tool to unthread it, for cross ventilation should it get wet inside, which hasn't happened, yet, but it will.
My favorite ever high mileage longboard was not nearly as well sealed inside. It was only my third HWS and I had not gotten any of them wet inside at that point of building it, and was not as adamant about sealing the interior, which developed later. It has gotten wet inside on more than one occassion since completion, once just being a shipdit and not closing off the nose vent, surfing after a few beers, and is closing in on 18 years of regular use.
The only HWS of mine ruined by water inside was the one I used Balsa within. I have a hard time imagining that one would build one of these intending it actually be surfed, and not just a wall hanger, and expect it to never get wet inside and leaving the interior wood entirely uncoated. Analagous to not using a condom in a stinky whorehouse. I had coated the balsa end grain strips with epoxy, but just once, and obviously more than one wiping was required to waterproof it.
I was a bit surprised to see you put foam inside, but do agree with you that it will add some compressive strength to individual chambers, especially if inserted tightly with little to no voids but Iamigne that to be a frustrating time consuming task.
I know how easily cedar can split along the grain with impact from a knee, and how invisible that split can remain until the cedar darkens from water entry and enough time for the wood to show signs of darkening. The ease with which cedar splits along the grain on impact is what caused me to start fiberglassing the planks/panels on the interior before assembly. Obviously, it greatly increases the workload, and finished weight, but it also prevents a well placed knee from allowing water inside then extensive time in drydock and the amount of weight added during the subsequent repair.
I've never chambered a board, but imagine I would be at least sealing each interior chamber with several coats of epoxy, and the first coat, mid chamber on the deck's side, would get some a strip of roving bridging the grain, Unless it were never intended to be ridden.
A little fiberglass on the inside strategically placed/ oriented, is more effective in preventing splitting along the grain from exterior impact, than significantly more fiberglass on the outside. One layer of 4oz is fine for the hull, if not excessive, but for stomp areas on the deck, it is not, not if the board is going to be a daily driver for years. I've added more deck glass to every daily driver, even when they are glassed on the inside and included a 4oz stomp patch on original glassing. Cedar is soft, and unfortunately my knee slams the same spot every time on pop up.
Splits along the grain either require a lot of glass pulled tightly across a considerable distance away from the split, or need to be routed out and rebuilt. I've done both, more than once. Better to catch the inevitable early, and prevent it whenever possible by adequate reinforcement from within, during construction. Might take a lot more time and add more weight initially, but it adds a lot of strength and longevity to it, keeping it out of drydock.
Its nice knowing there is glass inside, when shaping, as overshaping is always a possibility and one does not know when that occurs, until it does occur by a soft spot developing. At that point more layers of cloth have to go on the outside and likely will add way more weight than had it been glassed on the interior.
Thats the conumdrum with wood boards, built hollow or chanbered. they are so much work and so time consuming, what's a little bit more to ensure their longevity? One's OCD can make this 'little bit of extra' into hundreds of hours more of labor.
Hey 6-8, thanks for weighing in. If I build another HWS I will most likely glass the inside. Lesson learned.
I'm not planning it with this one, at least not at this point. I am probably going to use glass on the edge of each section, i.e. every "stringer" even if its just a glue up will be a fiberglass stringer. Because of the tendency to split top from bottom. Its not likely to end up a daily driver, so I don't anticipate any deck issues. And like I say, the deck is pretty thick, I actually left the deck side a little thicker for the reason its where I stand.
The foam inserts are not difficult. But they are a pain in the butt, mainly because I don't have big pieces of uniform thickness material to work with, I have a random grab bag of packing foam scraps and sushi cooler foam of all different sizes and thicknesses. But hey its what I chose to work with, and so I made my bed I have to lie in it.
I never purchased this "blank" with the thought that this will be a nice practical daily driver, I always knew it was going to be more of a show pony than a workhorse. Which is not to say I anticipate that its going to be a drool inducing beauty, only that it will be more of a novelty as (& especially for me the shaper) a connection to a bygone era that helped shape our sport.
As it turns out, none of my HWS are daily driver material. That's one thing I would like to shoot for in a wood board someday. But its not like I need more daily drivers, I have more than I have surfing days to use them all.
I am not planning on venting it, or glassing the inside, other than as mentioned. Although I gave it a lot of thought from the time I knew I was going to attempt this project, long before the subject even came up here. But in the end, I hope I have picked a compromise on weight strength beauty practicality, etc. and end up with a cool board shaped form a single giant chunk of wood that is functional and surfable, even tho very likely on the heavy side (remember WideAwake's chambered board from the same blank material finished up at 47 lbs!).
Hopefully I can finish and ride it at least once before Armageddon :-)
I saw a woman younger than myself in a homemade garbage bag burka wearing a 3m resipirator, dig her arm behind 2 dozen bottles of all the remaining dawn dishsoap and dump them in her cart. I started coughing and walking towards her like a feverish Zombie, and she fled the store screaming in what reminded me of a scene from a bugs bunny cartoon.
After I stopped laughing, I picked up a single bottle of dishsoap from her abandoned cart.
I ran out of dishsoap, and am pissed I can't get any Isopropl alcohol anymore, so these freaking panicked hoarders will get no sympathy from me.
I don't need any more boards either. The only foam board I still ride is a 9'3" gunny pintail longboard I made in 1997 after a session from Hurricane Linda at HB pier. I inserted some cedar planks over the original stringer a while back to keep it from snapping in half and pulled some CF tightly rail to rail to bridge the dents in the deck. and hold the halves to the new center I beam.
My HWS's were all built with longevity in mind with regular use, its just the early ones I was not aware of the structural weaknesses of cedar or where they would be revealed. Hard actual use over time revealed them and I then tried to design them out of future builds. The latest and final one is a tank, which has had some deck reinforcement added already where my knee crushed the cedar and the beginings of softness had started. I knew right where my knee would hit it on pop up, and braced it from within, but the cedar just can't take such an impact in the same area so many times before it starts getting soft.
I've not bought a completed surfboard since I was travelling overseas 20 years ago, in NZ. Still have it. Don't want it, but have great memories of NZ, Fiji and Hawaii riding it. Not a good SoCal board though. It likes juice. Glad they honored my wishes for a triple 6 glass job, too bad they didn't know how to properly install FCS plugs, but the triple six helped them endure until I could reinforce them.
I saw a woman younger than myself in a homemade garbage bag burka wearing a 3m resipirator, dig her arm behind 2 dozen bottles of all the remaining dawn dishsoap and dump them in her cart. I started coughing and walking towards her like a feverish Zombie, and she fled the store screaming in what reminded me of a scene from a bugs bunny cartoon.
After I stopped laughing, I picked up a single bottle of dishsoap from her abandoned cart.
I ran out of dishsoap, and am pissed I can't get any Isopropl alcohol anymore, so these freaking panicked hoarders will get no sympathy from me.
Yes indeedy. Highlarious. Well it hasn't hit our Coast yet, but definitely in the Valley. It'll be Crickets here when it does. Bought some Blue Dawn yesterday.
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Huck if not too late, consider this. On one of my balsas, I bought some 1/16 inch "veneer" mahogany in an 8 ft roll from somewhere by mail. I rolled it out and let it settle and used it for highlight stringers. I liked it.
all the best
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Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught. - Winston Churchill
Wow Huck what a great project, keep it up! Here's a few pics to help you visualize the stringer/glue lines you mentioned a page or two back to keep you going. Keep in mind those thinner lines would maybe be around 1/8" so the glue lines would be thinner. The photoshop file is easy to play around with so let me know it you if you want some other color combos, or stringer.
Thnx Johnny I got some 1/4" balsa for the center, and 3/32" for the rest, so it'll be somewhere between those first 2 pics.
The blank was cut apart by hand, and the internal twisting forces in the wood fought me. In addition, the sections curved quite a bit immediately upon being cut.
So the stringer lines might not be perfectly straight after glue up, and the balsa will only emphasize that. I'm ok with that, it won't affect the overall shape, and it's part of the process, a lot of it using primitive hand tools, I've just gotta accept / embrace.
Thnx Johnny I got some 1/4" balsa for the center, and 3/32" for the rest, so it'll be somewhere between those first 2 pics.
The blank was cut apart by hand, and the internal twisting forces in the wood fought me. In addition, the sections curved quite a bit immediately upon being cut.
So the stringer lines might not be perfectly straight after glue up, and the balsa will only emphasize that. I'm ok with that, it won't affect the overall shape, and it's part of the process, a lot of it using primitive hand tools, I've just gotta accept / embrace.
Oh cool, wasn't sure what direction you were going with glueing it up. The lighter balsa contrasting the cedar is going to look great regardless if it's perfectly straight or not, it'll only add to the character of this hand carved beast.
Glassing with 4 oz scraps. The cedar is so brittle that I need to strengthen the bond top to bottom now, and balsa stringers aren't going to be enough.
Just from handling during the chambering process a couple sections cracked through the middle, not completely, but 5 or 6 of the chamber dividers completely cracked thru. I just glued & clamped back together, but it made me aware how much this brittle old dried cedar wants to crack along the grain.
Weather is windy & rainy here, & as u can tell from the pics I do a lot of my work outdoors, so I'm kinda limited.
I got a few more chambers filled with foam b4 it started raining. Put some 4 oz. glass (using scraps) on the edge, and using resin glued the next stringer on, then clamped with a 2x4 caul.
Then I did a dry run of clamping the next piece. It's not glued. But this is the bad one, I wanted to see how hard its gonna be to clamp up (its a pain). Its not perfect, hopefully I can do a little better when I actually glue it up, but it looks do-able. The stringer isn't gonna be ruler edge perfection.
Ruler edge perfection is admirable, and guys like Jim or Gene pull it off. Hats off to them.
But one thing that I found really cool when I spent some time at the SHAAC was how the period wood boards are far from perfect. It made me look at my own boards a little differently.
Thanks Jeffrey, and yes, you're right. I kinda knew going into it (the chambering process) that ruler edge perfection wasn't really gonna be on the table as an option. And truth is, at the end of the day, I really don't place a high value on that type of "perfection", which is why I chose some of the methods I did.
But these are the things you wrestle with as a craftsman, working by hand in wood, an imperfect medium. And these are things that come out of in the narrative when you are posting in real time, vs. finished or process pics after the fact. You know its not gonna be perfect, but you struggle to keep it as straight as you can. While I am no perfectionist, I find I am always wishing it was a little bit better!
I did use a straight edge and a circular saw for the center cut, and even its not perfect. Forces in the wood grain moved it when I cut it up, and glueing back together, it has a little curve, minor but I can see it. The other cuts were made by hand with a small pull saw, because I didn't want the gap of the circular saw blade times 5 to take out over a half inch of my width. And because it was just more fun doing it that way.
So far, its actually gone better than expected, considering all the challenges this project has presented to me.
Again, thanks for commenting, and for the encouragement. I'll be honest - after this project got shut down by circumstances outside my control, I kinda let my doubts and negativity crowd it out, and now that its up and running again, I realize how important the right mindset is to seeing it through. And now, in these troubling times, its been a welcome challenge to take my mind off things outside my control, and focus on something good I hope to produce.
Like those cool old boards in the SHACC museum, machine like perfection won't be present in my finished product - but hopefully, the love of the craft will.
Thanks BB, its been quite the obstacle course, littered with countless little fails and imperfections, but overall the project is moving along and looking like its gonna be OK in the end.
My latest irritation is that I carved a little too deeply while hollowing out the rails. I was torn between wanting to leave a little meat for shaping, and wanting to remove as much meat as possible to lighten it up. I may have crossed a line, but won't know until I finish shaping it. Worse case scenario, I shape through the shell at that one particular point (its just one small spot), and have to patch back with a little repair. Not worth worrying over, but I do anyway.
So this is my "self imposed isolation" project for today, but I have no shortage. This whole "lockdown" thing may go into months or more. I'm just trying to stay calm, positive, and keep the faith! We're not on mandatory lockdown here, but it is suggested everyone stay home if they can, and avoid social proximity. Hope everyone out there is doing ok, hunkering down and keeping a cool head.
It was 47 lbs. when I cut it into sections. Looks like I'm headed towards a 27 lb. rough shape, once I get all put back together. Which is a 20 lb. weight loss with some pretty aggressive chambering.
Wow Huck. Just reread this whole thing after forgetting about the beginning. Calling the original hunks of wood a blank is a stretch. You are fortunate to have this challenge and only a few have the talent and creativity to shape that hunk of wood into a surfboard. A beautiful surfboard. Thanks for sharing. Mike
Huck, you've created an insanely neat board. Thanks again for sharing this - it has me inspired to get out some wood while I still have Balsa's Rockwell here...
OK thanks you guys but I've still got a few more hoops to jump thru before I can accept any accolades! Since I'm self isolating, I tinker on it several hours every day. What am I gonna do when I finish??? Prob have to do some actual yardwork - if the living dead zombie apocalypse hasn't run amok by then, or if the government hasn't just straight up outlawed waking up in the morning and getting out of bed.
I posted some pics of this build on Instagram and Facebook, and wow, lots of people hating on it - mainly the packing foam I stuffed into the chambers. I was blown away. A few samples: Its gonna need a vent. The foam will suck water. You would have gotten more boards out of it if you had cut it into veneer and vacuumed it on a blank. The foam will ruin the hollow sound. If the wood is so special then why didn't you leave it all wood. If you're gonna add foam why not just build a compsand. Why not use expanding foam. I would hate to get hit by that. and on and on. So I deleted most the pics with the worst comments. Takes all the fun out of sharing! And makes me appreciate you guys even more.
Anyway, here's today's progress pics. When I finally get the whole thing back together in one piece I'm gonna let out a huge sigh of relief!!
I can't believe people's negativity (yes, I see the paradox considering my first sentence) and ignorance. One of my favorite (theoretically, since I've never seen it in person) historical boards is the '47ish Malibu chip that Kayu posted a while back... which is no less amazing due to the foam used.
The negative comments above, are nothing more than a public display of thier ignorance about craftsmanship in general, and surfboard building in particular. Soldier on, you are doing an excellent job.
Thnx - sadly, those comments came from a surfboard builders group, & from others in the surfboard world. Swaylocks is a far superior website for actual conversations on surfboard building.
Put in a lot of work today, but little that shows in pics. Glassed & glued up another stringer (the last of 5!!) & finished hollowing out the last rail piece. I found a new use for an old door hanging jig I built - the weight of the door, or surfboard, bends the bottom and the side pinch in, holding it in place.
This project is kinda keeping me sane during california lockdown.
Every one of the 6 lengthwise sections will have fiberglass on all 4 sides, with a balsa stringer between.
The board should be not only lighter after chambering, but more stable as well, in terms of wood twisting or cupping over time. I've learned so much on this project, the next one (yeah right) should go much smoother.
Ignore the detractors Huck. The foam will give a more positive drivier feel when you ride it . It will also prevent internal condensation , that can cause dry rot . It's a better board with the chambers filled .....it's also an important factor in sealing and isolating the chambers from each other , in case of a ding that allows some water intrusion .
That has always been my thinking as well. I wouldn't want a wooden board to ride like a hollow board. I would think that filling the chambers would make for a better ride and glide.
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That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.
I really wish I could see it in person. And ride it.
Me too! Thats what makes this day kinda bittersweet. I've waited so long to get to this point, I thought I would throw a party when I finally got it back together. But in view of the tragedy unfolding in our world, I won't be throwing any parties any time soon. And I'm not sure when I'll be able to ride it, with the whole state, practially the whole world, on lockdown.
But at any rate, here it is, back together. Its given me something to do with my hands and keep my mind in a positive place. Pretty stoked about it so far, cuz now I can finally get about the business of final shaping it. And the weight now (before finish shaping) is 26 lbs., down 21 lbs. with chambering. I almost cut the weight in half! It still feels heavy as a rock to me tho :-)
Looking forward to better days, and fun times in the surf! Hang in there swaylocks bros, it might get worse before it gets better, but better days are coming.
I had a Harbour Banana in '65 that was 26 lbs. That was pretty normal at the time and we thought nothing of it. Waves have more than enough energy to get that thing flying. Not to worry.
Keep it going. You'll get there.
That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.
Yeah I def find the chambering process to be a drag. I'm plugging away at it tho.
I went back and re-read the whole thread, easy to forget what a crazy journey it was to get it to this point. I actually had forgotten what an absolute beast this thing was to shape, and how much I stressed every step of the way.
I also had forgotten that I hand shaped by eye, without a template, which was kinda in keeping with the way a lot of these old wood boards were actually shaped.
I'm still real nervous about trying to clamp the pieces back together, they all twisted and turned once I cut them apart. Hopefully the chambering will make them flexible enough to bend 'em back to fit together again.
The board is rough shaped, but pretty close to the finished shape, so there is not a lot of room for movement - the pieces HAVE to go back together pretty precisely. Like I say, this has me stressing a bit. Thankfully I have lots of good clamps.
Still not totally decided on the stringer issue, but I'm kinda leaning toward just a glue line. Just because adding the stringers will add to the work, and at this point I'm not sure I want to do that. Especially if I have to really fight the pieces in the clamping stage.
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I would consider just clamping and glueing two pieces at a time. Maybe work from the outside towards the center or possibly from the center outward. When I glue up foam on a center split blank, I will usually glue the stringer to one half of the blank and then glue the other half of the blank to the stringer after the glue has set on the first half. Easier to manage and line the foam up to my rockered stringer etc. Might be more manageable for you to glue up say the two outside rail pieces on each side and then the center. Then glue three pieces at one time instead of five.
That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.
So re-reading through this thread has really been a trip for me. This has been an ambitious undertaking for me, and looking at the pics I kinda get swept up in the emotion of those comments posted in real time, as I was struggling with that huge mass of wood. And especially the photos, wow. I no longer have those photos, forgot they even exist. The only time I have ever bought a bigger piece of wood is a wood house beam.
Now WideAwake bought the other blank, and kinda seemed to me like he breezed through it (compared to me!), making a big heavy (finished weight 47 lbs) hot curl finless wood board. And he chambered it. He had to have wrestled with some of the same issues I did, and I am.
Anyway, some of the comments got me thinking about stringers, for the visual effect. Initially, I really wanted the "monolith" effect to emphasize that this beast came from one single piece of wood.
But now that its cut into sections, I gotta admit a few stringers would add a very nice touch. But I didn't know where to get stringer wood big enough, and then I got to thinking: all I need is a narrow strip around the edges. I could piece together some small strips around the perimeter of each section, and if I work carefully it would still look visually the same as one continuous stringer piece.
I dug through my junk and found a box of model airplane balsa I bought at a yardsale. I think I've got enough to do a 1/4" balsa stringer down the middle, and a 3/32" stringer in 2 other joints, maybe all 4 of the remaining joints. So now I'm thinking about this, and I don't think it would be very difficult.
Thnx mcding I def won't try to glue up more than 1 joint at a time.
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Getting there...
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Packing foam to fill the voids
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Using that Sushi foam is a great idea.
That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.
great thread, Huck.
all the best
Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught. - Winston Churchill
Thank you Greg. This thread has actually been a great help for me, and I have gone through and re-read it numerous times in the past few days.
Resurrecting this old project wasn't easy, and I find myself asking How did I get in the middle of this one? Then when I go back through the process, I remember how absolutely blown away I was to come across this opportunity.
I was initially surprised that no one else jumped at the chance when Bill mentioned he had these 2 solid wood surfboard blanks. Maybe everyone knew what a headache it would actually be?? But really, for me the shaping wasn't a headache. The chambering is.
Its pretty well done now, but filling the voids is, once again, slow and cumbersome work. It feels like no end in sight, even tho I make a little progress every day.
At the time I bought the blank, there was some hope I might not have to chamber it. But at 47 lbs. unglassed, I felt I had no choice. So here I am.
Brian Bent posted a pic of him riding a solid redwood hot curl that weighed 80 lbs, and I was completely blown away!! 80 lbs!!!
And truthfully, I'm still pretty surprised that this opportunity presented itself. I think maybe partially because I worked in wood to a great extent before retiring, that I got so excited about this.
I posted a few pics on facebook, and from the response I guess a lot of people just have no clue how rare it is to find a solid slab of old growth vertical grain clear western red cedar in a singular chunk large enough to carve a 9 foot surfboard from it. I mean, where would you even go to try to find such a thing in today's world??? I'm still kinda blown away by what a rare find it was.
And I'm still hoping one day Bill finds out a little more to the back story. All he knew at the time IIRC was that a realtor friend of his came across these two wood blanks, and that they had laid in someone's barn/ garage for at least 20 years (but I'm thinking they are much older than that, more like 70 years old).
I mean holy cow, there has to be a story to who rough cut these bad boys out of what must have been a huge tree trunk using a big ol' chainsaw, clearly with the intent of making them into surfboards. Who even DOES that?? Maybe I should make one up, just for entertainment purposes?? That might be as much fun as shaping it was, definitely more fun than chambering, haha.
So yeah, the actual process of trying to make a functional surf craft from it has turned out to be pretty daunting. Moreso than all the other complex builds I've gotten through.
I'm sure there are people much better equipped for the task, with a large and well appointed workshop at their disposal, and all the best tools. But just using my little shop and my simple tools, I've gotten this far. So I keep giving myself pep talks, as I would really like to keep this project moving.
Which is a long winded way of saying thanks for the moral support, I'll take all I can get!!
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If you sprinkle a bit of salt on the joint, it will help in minimizing the shifting of the pieces while doing the glue up.
Freaking awesome tip.
I hate it when glue acts like a lubricant while clamping. Some of my better and more embarrassing curse fests have occured during such processes, and getting those dowel guiding pins slightly wrongly located curse fest x 10.
On a somehwat similar note, I have painted a relatively thick layer of epoxy on my long cruiser Skateboard deck with tape dam installed around perimeter, then sprinkled it with coarse brown sugar and spread it around. Once cured, water dissolved the sugar and the surface left behind is rougher than 36 grit, and shreds my shoes.
Buying clear grip tape would have been easier and quicker, but I had the sugar and epoxy on hand.
My neighbor has a fat tire electric bike. Those inner tubes he throws out rather than repairing, have proved amazingly resilient, way more so than the inner tubes back from my youth, and have so many potential uses. Cut cross sections straight, or diagonally to get certain diameters/ and pressures applied. I use small sections cut just a bit wider than rubber bands, to keep my disc brake pads from rattling in the calipers. They've survived many mountain passes so far.
Glad to see you're back on this project Huck.
I am not planning on venting this, and in fact will probably end up sealing the 6 lengthwise sections from each other. I don't see it as being an issue, but always like to hear from those who have built chambered boards if there were any issues from venting or not venting.
Thanks for checking out my thread and for any comments, encouragement, or suggestions. The salt tip on glue ups sounds like a winner! Its been a rather tedious project from the time I began the chambering process. Up til then it was challenging but fun. Chambering not so much.
But then again I"m not likely to have another project like this one in this lifetime, so I keep telling myself, just get though it, haha.
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That's some thread and I'm glad you're still making progress. I also watched the Gene Cooper thread. Now I'm keeping track of this one. Now, I are engineer, so I have questions...
The chambering was good idea and you seem to have done it well. But what good can it do to fill the chambers with light density foam? It won't make the overall board any stronger - think of the bending or the compressive strength of each of those blocks - it's next to nothing. That foam is likely open cell EPS, so if water gets in, it will spread and saturate each block it leaks into. I'm sure it took a goodly amount of time that could have been spent elsewhere, although time spent on this project is probably therapeutic all by itself. Maybe the good the filling did is that it allowed (made) you coat the inside of each chamber, thus making each chamber (somewhat) waterproof.
What will be the glass schedule? It just needs to hold all the pieces together and waterproof the lot, so I'd think single 4 ounce top and bottom would be enough. You'll need to seal the blank first, as did Gene. Epoxy resin?
thanks Honolulu - the foam is for strength and for leaving less actual air inside. It is kind of a pain in the rear, not really difficult, but tedious as I have said. I have seen it done, and wanted to try it myself.
With this much air in the chambering, I wouldn't feel comfortable without a vent - unless the voids were filled with foam. So thats what I'm doing. You blow it off as adding very little compressive strength, but I disagree. It actually adds a lot. This is packing foam, it is light and strong. There is a reason that packing foam is used in protecting merchandise and it wouldn't be used so much if it didn't have compressive strength.
And yes it CAN take in water, but I know from my experience with hollow wood surfboards that a completely hollow board will take in more water, and have greater air pressure, than a foam board. I am not worried too much about taking in water from a ding - the wood shell is pretty strong, this thing will not ding easily, especially with the foam inserts. And if it does take in water, I can pretty well guarantee the water will not spread throughout the inside as fast and as thorough as it would in a hollow board.
I will probably glass with 4 oz. cloth and epoxy resin.
Well the packing foam inserts are in, anyway, so my mild objection to them is moot. I'll just toss out that if the deck is susceptible to denting from your knees, heel or whatever, the inserts won't help more than a minimal amount, and could hardly be expected to transfer any stress to the bottom "skin".
But, I'm waiting to see some contrasting stringers! A light wood stringer or three (pine is readily available, straight grain if you avoid the knotty stuff, inexpensive and stains well) could really things set off, and they don't all have to be the same color. You might try, if you haven't already, testing some epoxy on your basic material, and some on a bit of whatever other wood you have.
Another thing that comes to mind, from recently refinishing the top of my wife's solid maple dresser, is that you can stain the wood, deepen the natural color (I did it with the maple), redden it, make it a little more "brown", or lighten it by treating it with oxalic acid. Just test before you go all out. I think a water-based stain would be the ticket, or the resin may not adhere well. Wood has to be uniformly good and dry both before stain and after.
I don't think his intent in using the foam inserts has much if anything to do with strengthening the deck. Maybe he will say different, but most guys are usually trying to affect the overall ride or paddle of the board. An attempt to get away from that "hollow" feel. You are right in recommending a test before applying resin over anything stain. Epoxy is pretty safe, but Poly "pulls" the stain. Pine is cheap, but way too soft. Anyway he does it is gonna look great. But that slab of wood is pretty beautiful in itself. I don't know that adding anything to it would make it any more Beautiful than it already is. That fin with a Bead on it is also very nice. Just my two cents and opinion only.
That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.
Thnx McDing and Honolulu, not too much interest in this thread right now, what with the world as we know it unraveling and all, so I'm tickled to get some response. I wish the foam inserts were done, but not so. The chambering is mostly done, and the inserts about half done.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around how anyone could have an objection, mild or otherwise, to me stuffing some foam in my hollow wood chambered board, but like I say, I'm just glad to have you here.
Maybe it's just the engineer in you. My brother is a draftsman / designer, and he did a lot of design work on the rides at Disneyworld. He said they brought some of the tougher projects to him, and he would say, Why don't you have the engineers work on that? His boss told him I take it to the engineers if I want to hear why it can't be done, I take it to you if I just want to get it done. He used to have a saying about engineers "over-technical under-practical". Just funnin' with ya.
I have experience with hollow wood boards, and I can tell you straight up that one tiny leak can nearly ruin a board in one surf session. Venting should help, but all the vents say they have to be inspected and replaced periodically. I'm guessing because the fabric can clog over time.
And screw vents run the risk of not sealing 100% every time, so thats the equivalent of a leak. I know this because I had a screw vent in my 9' 6" hollow wood gun, and one surf session resulted in enough damage that its gonna require a serious rebuild, because the screw vent must have allowed a tiny leak, and water sucked into it.
Like I said my goals in putting the foam in were mostly to fill the voids so its not all air in there, and to add a bit of strength. Some people say Chinese food doesn't really fill them up, they're hungry again an hour later. But people still eat Chinese food, and no one objects. So if my foam doesn't add as much strength as say, leaving the board solid wood, but I choose to do it anyway, then....
I don't think denting the deck is gonna be an issue, its about 5/8" solid wood, its not like a veneer on a compsand (even tho technically the board is a composite sandwich construction). But the foam will definitely add strength, I have zero doubt in my mind about that. Its tough stuff. I know this from working with it as I fill the chambers. Some of it is soft and spongy, but most of it is pretty rigid. Its all pretty light too. As far as the hollow sound and feel, that isn't an issue for me.
I went to Hobby Lobby to buy some balsa, and the power went out cuz some braniac overturned a big rig into a power line.
People kinda gone crazy here. Driving crazy, acting crazy. I went to Lowes and long lines buying toilet paper. I went to get gas at Costco and there was a two block long line of cars just to get into the parking lot. In ten minutes of driving I had three very near accidents, people turning right from the left lane, stopping mid lane for no reason other then I guess to think about where they wanted to go, just kinda crazy.
Anyway, I might be back to using balsa strips, or maybe I will try again later at the hobby shop, if I feel emboldened enough to brave the living dead roaming the streets out there.
I don't think I would add stain, the grain is pretty nice as it is. I do want at least one light stringer, but we'll see how it goes. I might just glue it up. I could add some pigment and use resin to glue the sections together, that might be cool. Black or maybe a light color, like tan.
I actually dug all 6 sections out of my garage where my cats had been abusing them (they have zero respect for my stuff, the world is their playground), knocking them over, probably spraying then with eau d'tomcat, scratching their claws, etc. Wrecking crew pictures below. Fortunately I left a little meat in the rough shape to hopefully take the skin off & clean it up.
I will try to get some update pics up soon, if I can muster a little progress.
Thanks again to anyone reading, and double thanks to those who have replied :-)
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Whether a hollow wood board is ruined by a leak is entirely dependent on whether it was sealed or not on the interior, and how well it was sealed, and how quickly/effectively one can drain it and dry it. My thumb screw nose vents are positioned to allow not only ease of pressure equalization while in the water, but for maximum drainage when put on end. I also allow room to stuff a rope wick in there and get that last portion of water in the nose.
The guys that taught me their HWS method would barely wipe one layer of epoxy on the rough interior structure, before adding the deck planks. Time/labor was a factor as was added weight and total epoxy used. After the board was finished one could unscrew the vent and smell raw cedar and or pine if that was used. Never was wood glue used, but always epoxy.
Secondary bonding issues with amine blush and epoxy is a concern, so a simple sealing of the interior before laying on the deck planks/panel(s) can greatly increase the work load, or negatively affect bond strength if ignored. If amine blush's secondary bond inhibation is ignored, then once can find their deck planks lifting off the structure. Even the supposed 'blush free' epoxies blush with enough humidity and mechanical tooth is always good. The chemical bonding window of epoxy is too short to work within building hws, at least on most of the stages.
My only HWS which was ruined, was the one I used end grain balsa inside of for the stomp areas. I had fiberglassed the interior panels, but only the exterior's rails. I did not notice my knee had split some cedar on the deck under the wax, and water got inside and the balsa soaked up all the water like a sponge so I could not hear it sloshing around inside, and turned to mush. I also blame having used some 5 minute epoxy( which is not waterproof) when I did notice the damage but was frothing with excellent conditions and did not want to use any of the back up boards or want to wait for regular epoxy to cure.
My latest HWS, is completely sealed inside, having wiped each dry wood interior portion more than once with epoxy until it appeared it could absorb no more, and sanding inbetween coats. No less than 3 coats on the less thirsty portions of the wood and upto 5 coats on the thirsty, all sanded inbetween. Huge amount of extra work considering the 75+ holes drilled.
All interior panels are fiberglassed too. Almost all of the interior wiping before laying the deck, was the thirsty interior stringer holes I drilled after joining them to the hull panel. I made special tools to get inside the holes easily for sanding, and also for applying the sealing epoxy designed for minimal drippings during.
If I blow air into thes latest HWS, and smell that which comes back out, it smells like epoxy, not cedar. I have a thumbscrew vent in the nose and a custom brass vent in the tail requiring a tool to unthread it, for cross ventilation should it get wet inside, which hasn't happened, yet, but it will.
My favorite ever high mileage longboard was not nearly as well sealed inside. It was only my third HWS and I had not gotten any of them wet inside at that point of building it, and was not as adamant about sealing the interior, which developed later. It has gotten wet inside on more than one occassion since completion, once just being a shipdit and not closing off the nose vent, surfing after a few beers, and is closing in on 18 years of regular use.
The only HWS of mine ruined by water inside was the one I used Balsa within. I have a hard time imagining that one would build one of these intending it actually be surfed, and not just a wall hanger, and expect it to never get wet inside and leaving the interior wood entirely uncoated. Analagous to not using a condom in a stinky whorehouse. I had coated the balsa end grain strips with epoxy, but just once, and obviously more than one wiping was required to waterproof it.
I was a bit surprised to see you put foam inside, but do agree with you that it will add some compressive strength to individual chambers, especially if inserted tightly with little to no voids but Iamigne that to be a frustrating time consuming task.
I know how easily cedar can split along the grain with impact from a knee, and how invisible that split can remain until the cedar darkens from water entry and enough time for the wood to show signs of darkening. The ease with which cedar splits along the grain on impact is what caused me to start fiberglassing the planks/panels on the interior before assembly. Obviously, it greatly increases the workload, and finished weight, but it also prevents a well placed knee from allowing water inside then extensive time in drydock and the amount of weight added during the subsequent repair.
I've never chambered a board, but imagine I would be at least sealing each interior chamber with several coats of epoxy, and the first coat, mid chamber on the deck's side, would get some a strip of roving bridging the grain, Unless it were never intended to be ridden.
A little fiberglass on the inside strategically placed/ oriented, is more effective in preventing splitting along the grain from exterior impact, than significantly more fiberglass on the outside. One layer of 4oz is fine for the hull, if not excessive, but for stomp areas on the deck, it is not, not if the board is going to be a daily driver for years. I've added more deck glass to every daily driver, even when they are glassed on the inside and included a 4oz stomp patch on original glassing. Cedar is soft, and unfortunately my knee slams the same spot every time on pop up.
Splits along the grain either require a lot of glass pulled tightly across a considerable distance away from the split, or need to be routed out and rebuilt. I've done both, more than once. Better to catch the inevitable early, and prevent it whenever possible by adequate reinforcement from within, during construction. Might take a lot more time and add more weight initially, but it adds a lot of strength and longevity to it, keeping it out of drydock.
Its nice knowing there is glass inside, when shaping, as overshaping is always a possibility and one does not know when that occurs, until it does occur by a soft spot developing. At that point more layers of cloth have to go on the outside and likely will add way more weight than had it been glassed on the interior.
Thats the conumdrum with wood boards, built hollow or chanbered. they are so much work and so time consuming, what's a little bit more to ensure their longevity? One's OCD can make this 'little bit of extra' into hundreds of hours more of labor.
Hey 6-8, thanks for weighing in. If I build another HWS I will most likely glass the inside. Lesson learned.
I'm not planning it with this one, at least not at this point. I am probably going to use glass on the edge of each section, i.e. every "stringer" even if its just a glue up will be a fiberglass stringer. Because of the tendency to split top from bottom. Its not likely to end up a daily driver, so I don't anticipate any deck issues. And like I say, the deck is pretty thick, I actually left the deck side a little thicker for the reason its where I stand.
The foam inserts are not difficult. But they are a pain in the butt, mainly because I don't have big pieces of uniform thickness material to work with, I have a random grab bag of packing foam scraps and sushi cooler foam of all different sizes and thicknesses. But hey its what I chose to work with, and so I made my bed I have to lie in it.
I never purchased this "blank" with the thought that this will be a nice practical daily driver, I always knew it was going to be more of a show pony than a workhorse. Which is not to say I anticipate that its going to be a drool inducing beauty, only that it will be more of a novelty as (& especially for me the shaper) a connection to a bygone era that helped shape our sport.
As it turns out, none of my HWS are daily driver material. That's one thing I would like to shoot for in a wood board someday. But its not like I need more daily drivers, I have more than I have surfing days to use them all.
I am not planning on venting it, or glassing the inside, other than as mentioned. Although I gave it a lot of thought from the time I knew I was going to attempt this project, long before the subject even came up here. But in the end, I hope I have picked a compromise on weight strength beauty practicality, etc. and end up with a cool board shaped form a single giant chunk of wood that is functional and surfable, even tho very likely on the heavy side (remember WideAwake's chambered board from the same blank material finished up at 47 lbs!).
Hopefully I can finish and ride it at least once before Armageddon :-)
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Armageddon seems to be here already.
I saw a woman younger than myself in a homemade garbage bag burka wearing a 3m resipirator, dig her arm behind 2 dozen bottles of all the remaining dawn dishsoap and dump them in her cart. I started coughing and walking towards her like a feverish Zombie, and she fled the store screaming in what reminded me of a scene from a bugs bunny cartoon.
After I stopped laughing, I picked up a single bottle of dishsoap from her abandoned cart.
I ran out of dishsoap, and am pissed I can't get any Isopropl alcohol anymore, so these freaking panicked hoarders will get no sympathy from me.
I don't need any more boards either. The only foam board I still ride is a 9'3" gunny pintail longboard I made in 1997 after a session from Hurricane Linda at HB pier. I inserted some cedar planks over the original stringer a while back to keep it from snapping in half and pulled some CF tightly rail to rail to bridge the dents in the deck. and hold the halves to the new center I beam.
My HWS's were all built with longevity in mind with regular use, its just the early ones I was not aware of the structural weaknesses of cedar or where they would be revealed. Hard actual use over time revealed them and I then tried to design them out of future builds. The latest and final one is a tank, which has had some deck reinforcement added already where my knee crushed the cedar and the beginings of softness had started. I knew right where my knee would hit it on pop up, and braced it from within, but the cedar just can't take such an impact in the same area so many times before it starts getting soft.
I've not bought a completed surfboard since I was travelling overseas 20 years ago, in NZ. Still have it. Don't want it, but have great memories of NZ, Fiji and Hawaii riding it. Not a good SoCal board though. It likes juice. Glad they honored my wishes for a triple 6 glass job, too bad they didn't know how to properly install FCS plugs, but the triple six helped them endure until I could reinforce them.
Brilliant! That made my day, a good laugh!
Yes indeedy. Highlarious. Well it hasn't hit our Coast yet, but definitely in the Valley. It'll be Crickets here when it does. Bought some Blue Dawn yesterday.
That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.
I'm really enjoying this thread.
Huck if not too late, consider this. On one of my balsas, I bought some 1/16 inch "veneer" mahogany in an 8 ft roll from somewhere by mail. I rolled it out and let it settle and used it for highlight stringers. I liked it.
all the best
Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught. - Winston Churchill
GL Veneer in California has all that stuff.
That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.
Wow Huck what a great project, keep it up! Here's a few pics to help you visualize the stringer/glue lines you mentioned a page or two back to keep you going. Keep in mind those thinner lines would maybe be around 1/8" so the glue lines would be thinner. The photoshop file is easy to play around with so let me know it you if you want some other color combos, or stringer.
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Thnx Johnny I got some 1/4" balsa for the center, and 3/32" for the rest, so it'll be somewhere between those first 2 pics.
The blank was cut apart by hand, and the internal twisting forces in the wood fought me. In addition, the sections curved quite a bit immediately upon being cut.
So the stringer lines might not be perfectly straight after glue up, and the balsa will only emphasize that. I'm ok with that, it won't affect the overall shape, and it's part of the process, a lot of it using primitive hand tools, I've just gotta accept / embrace.
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Oh cool, wasn't sure what direction you were going with glueing it up. The lighter balsa contrasting the cedar is going to look great regardless if it's perfectly straight or not, it'll only add to the character of this hand carved beast.
Pretty cool Johnny the way you did that. Great tool for visualization.
That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.
Glassing with 4 oz scraps. The cedar is so brittle that I need to strengthen the bond top to bottom now, and balsa stringers aren't going to be enough.
Just from handling during the chambering process a couple sections cracked through the middle, not completely, but 5 or 6 of the chamber dividers completely cracked thru. I just glued & clamped back together, but it made me aware how much this brittle old dried cedar wants to crack along the grain.
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Glueing up the stringer.
In case anybody out there still has surfboards on their mind amid the crisis & turmoil.
Stay safe swaylocks bros & just take it one day at a time!
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Huck,
Amidst all this craziness, this is exactly what I'm looking for. Thank you for keeping posting. I'm really looking forward to the rest.
Good on ya for sharing!
Ok, well thnx 4 checking in.
Weather is windy & rainy here, & as u can tell from the pics I do a lot of my work outdoors, so I'm kinda limited.
I got a few more chambers filled with foam b4 it started raining. Put some 4 oz. glass (using scraps) on the edge, and using resin glued the next stringer on, then clamped with a 2x4 caul.
Then I did a dry run of clamping the next piece. It's not glued. But this is the bad one, I wanted to see how hard its gonna be to clamp up (its a pain). Its not perfect, hopefully I can do a little better when I actually glue it up, but it looks do-able. The stringer isn't gonna be ruler edge perfection.
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Ruler edge perfection is admirable, and guys like Jim or Gene pull it off. Hats off to them.
But one thing that I found really cool when I spent some time at the SHAAC was how the period wood boards are far from perfect. It made me look at my own boards a little differently.
You're doing a great piece of work.
Thanks Jeffrey, and yes, you're right. I kinda knew going into it (the chambering process) that ruler edge perfection wasn't really gonna be on the table as an option. And truth is, at the end of the day, I really don't place a high value on that type of "perfection", which is why I chose some of the methods I did.
But these are the things you wrestle with as a craftsman, working by hand in wood, an imperfect medium. And these are things that come out of in the narrative when you are posting in real time, vs. finished or process pics after the fact. You know its not gonna be perfect, but you struggle to keep it as straight as you can. While I am no perfectionist, I find I am always wishing it was a little bit better!
I did use a straight edge and a circular saw for the center cut, and even its not perfect. Forces in the wood grain moved it when I cut it up, and glueing back together, it has a little curve, minor but I can see it. The other cuts were made by hand with a small pull saw, because I didn't want the gap of the circular saw blade times 5 to take out over a half inch of my width. And because it was just more fun doing it that way.
So far, its actually gone better than expected, considering all the challenges this project has presented to me.
Again, thanks for commenting, and for the encouragement. I'll be honest - after this project got shut down by circumstances outside my control, I kinda let my doubts and negativity crowd it out, and now that its up and running again, I realize how important the right mindset is to seeing it through. And now, in these troubling times, its been a welcome challenge to take my mind off things outside my control, and focus on something good I hope to produce.
Like those cool old boards in the SHACC museum, machine like perfection won't be present in my finished product - but hopefully, the love of the craft will.
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Looking at those pics of the old wood boards... i think their stringers might be a little straighter than mine, lol. Here are some process pics.
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so nice, Can't imagine the work put into that beauty. craftmanship to the max!!!
Thanks BB, its been quite the obstacle course, littered with countless little fails and imperfections, but overall the project is moving along and looking like its gonna be OK in the end.
My latest irritation is that I carved a little too deeply while hollowing out the rails. I was torn between wanting to leave a little meat for shaping, and wanting to remove as much meat as possible to lighten it up. I may have crossed a line, but won't know until I finish shaping it. Worse case scenario, I shape through the shell at that one particular point (its just one small spot), and have to patch back with a little repair. Not worth worrying over, but I do anyway.
So this is my "self imposed isolation" project for today, but I have no shortage. This whole "lockdown" thing may go into months or more. I'm just trying to stay calm, positive, and keep the faith! We're not on mandatory lockdown here, but it is suggested everyone stay home if they can, and avoid social proximity. Hope everyone out there is doing ok, hunkering down and keeping a cool head.
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It was 47 lbs. when I cut it into sections. Looks like I'm headed towards a 27 lb. rough shape, once I get all put back together. Which is a 20 lb. weight loss with some pretty aggressive chambering.
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Wow Huck. Just reread this whole thing after forgetting about the beginning. Calling the original hunks of wood a blank is a stretch. You are fortunate to have this challenge and only a few have the talent and creativity to shape that hunk of wood into a surfboard. A beautiful surfboard. Thanks for sharing. Mike
Huck, you've created an insanely neat board. Thanks again for sharing this - it has me inspired to get out some wood while I still have Balsa's Rockwell here...
OK thanks you guys but I've still got a few more hoops to jump thru before I can accept any accolades! Since I'm self isolating, I tinker on it several hours every day. What am I gonna do when I finish??? Prob have to do some actual yardwork - if the living dead zombie apocalypse hasn't run amok by then, or if the government hasn't just straight up outlawed waking up in the morning and getting out of bed.
I posted some pics of this build on Instagram and Facebook, and wow, lots of people hating on it - mainly the packing foam I stuffed into the chambers. I was blown away. A few samples: Its gonna need a vent. The foam will suck water. You would have gotten more boards out of it if you had cut it into veneer and vacuumed it on a blank. The foam will ruin the hollow sound. If the wood is so special then why didn't you leave it all wood. If you're gonna add foam why not just build a compsand. Why not use expanding foam. I would hate to get hit by that. and on and on. So I deleted most the pics with the worst comments. Takes all the fun out of sharing! And makes me appreciate you guys even more.
Anyway, here's today's progress pics. When I finally get the whole thing back together in one piece I'm gonna let out a huge sigh of relief!!
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Beautiful work. You can safely ignore comments from the know-it-alls on other sites. Swaylockians know what this project is all about.
Huck, forgive me for being blunt, but F- 'em.
I can't believe people's negativity (yes, I see the paradox considering my first sentence) and ignorance. One of my favorite (theoretically, since I've never seen it in person) historical boards is the '47ish Malibu chip that Kayu posted a while back... which is no less amazing due to the foam used.
Keep the stoke flowing, amigo!
Aloha Huck,
The negative comments above, are nothing more than a public display of thier ignorance about craftsmanship in general, and surfboard building in particular. Soldier on, you are doing an excellent job.
Thnx - sadly, those comments came from a surfboard builders group, & from others in the surfboard world. Swaylocks is a far superior website for actual conversations on surfboard building.
Put in a lot of work today, but little that shows in pics. Glassed & glued up another stringer (the last of 5!!) & finished hollowing out the last rail piece. I found a new use for an old door hanging jig I built - the weight of the door, or surfboard, bends the bottom and the side pinch in, holding it in place.
This project is kinda keeping me sane during california lockdown.
Every one of the 6 lengthwise sections will have fiberglass on all 4 sides, with a balsa stringer between.
The board should be not only lighter after chambering, but more stable as well, in terms of wood twisting or cupping over time. I've learned so much on this project, the next one (yeah right) should go much smoother.
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http://www.currumbinwoodworks.com.au/
I really wish I could see it in person. And ride it.
All da best
Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught. - Winston Churchill
That has always been my thinking as well. I wouldn't want a wooden board to ride like a hollow board. I would think that filling the chambers would make for a better ride and glide.
That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.
Me too! Thats what makes this day kinda bittersweet. I've waited so long to get to this point, I thought I would throw a party when I finally got it back together. But in view of the tragedy unfolding in our world, I won't be throwing any parties any time soon. And I'm not sure when I'll be able to ride it, with the whole state, practially the whole world, on lockdown.
But at any rate, here it is, back together. Its given me something to do with my hands and keep my mind in a positive place. Pretty stoked about it so far, cuz now I can finally get about the business of final shaping it. And the weight now (before finish shaping) is 26 lbs., down 21 lbs. with chambering. I almost cut the weight in half! It still feels heavy as a rock to me tho :-)
Looking forward to better days, and fun times in the surf! Hang in there swaylocks bros, it might get worse before it gets better, but better days are coming.
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I had a Harbour Banana in '65 that was 26 lbs. That was pretty normal at the time and we thought nothing of it. Waves have more than enough energy to get that thing flying. Not to worry.
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