>>> Hey Dale - In regards to the keel fin template... I remember seeing some > keels that were brought over to California by Wayne Lynch and Nat Young in > the early 70s. The leading edge was concave to the tip (about 2/3 back) > followed by a concave trailing edge back to the base. The keel templates I > remember on the Lis fish designs had a convex leading edge and fairly > sraight vertical trailing edge. Are these (the latter) the type you are > referring to? John, I have no experience with the type of keel fin that Wayne and Nat used, my fins have primarily been 1/8" to 3/16" thin slab in various shapes, convex centrally/peaked foiled about 1" thick, conventionally foiled about 1/2" with peak and trailing edge at rear. When dual keels were used, the outer surface was foiled and the inner was usually flat. I ran them parallel and 90 degrees to the centerline of the test design, also toed in and tipped out in various amounts, positioned near the rail`s edge and as much as 3" in. Heights were in the 1 1/2" to 5" range, bases 8" to 18"; I came to prefer them with a fairing. They were made of fiberglass/resin/epoxy, microspheres, wood, laminated polyethylene, vinyl/vinyl resin, etc. attaching them to the running surface with contact adhesive, fin boxes, resin/epoxy and stainless screws tapped down into the center of the fin through the deck, much as George Greenough. I played with them on surfboards, kneeboards, bodyboards and paipos. I owe much to San Diego`s (G&S?) Steve Seebold as an early influence. My general conclusions were that many of the keels I tried were excellent when used in long, powerful waves, felt very fast and secure, but were also a bit "tight", resisting quick/sharp directional changes and lateral drifting (no surprise). In particular, on very short boards, the keels provided much longer turns and trimlines than were usually possible, linking distant sections, great for uncrowded point surf, but frustratingly restrictive in short, weak beachbreak. I never satisfied my curiousity with them, and am certain that there is more to be discovered, particularly in regards to long, thin and laterally flexible, shallow keel fins with their peak located in the rear third and having most of the base unattached, except for the front 25%. In this manner, much of the characteristic "stiffness" is eased because the long rudder is then free to bend horizontally when sideways pressure is applied, something impossible with a normal keel fin. Of course, the overall surfboard design being tested must be integrated with the keel, resulting in a serious investment of time and work. Depending on how one rides, the waves preferred and the type of surfcraft employed, keel fins remain a largely forgotten, yet, functional choice. Thanks for asking about this interesting, old subject. Dale
>>> Hey Dale - In regards to the keel fin template... I remember seeing some > keels that were brought over to California by Wayne Lynch and Nat Young in > the early 70s. The leading edge was concave to the tip (about 2/3 back) > followed by a concave trailing edge back to the base. The keel templates I > remember on the Lis fish designs had a convex leading edge and fairly > sraight vertical trailing edge. Are these (the latter) the type you are > referring to? John, I have no experience with the type of keel fin that Wayne and Nat used, my fins have primarily been 1/8" to 3/16" thin slab in various shapes, convex centrally/peaked foiled about 1" thick, conventionally foiled about 1/2" with peak and trailing edge at rear. When dual keels were used, the outer surface was foiled and the inner was usually flat. I ran them parallel and 90 degrees to the centerline of the test design, also toed in and tipped out in various amounts, positioned near the rail`s edge and as much as 3" in. Heights were in the 1 1/2" to 5" range, bases 8" to 18"; I came to prefer them with a fairing. They were made of fiberglass/resin/epoxy, microspheres, wood, laminated polyethylene, vinyl/vinyl resin, etc. attaching them to the running surface with contact adhesive, fin boxes, resin/epoxy and stainless screws tapped down into the center of the fin through the deck, much as George Greenough. I played with them on surfboards, kneeboards, bodyboards and paipos. I owe much to San Diego`s (G&S?) Steve Seebold as an early influence. My general conclusions were that many of the keels I tried were excellent when used in long, powerful waves, felt very fast and secure, but were also a bit "tight", resisting quick/sharp directional changes and lateral drifting (no surprise). In particular, on very short boards, the keels provided much longer turns and trimlines than were usually possible, linking distant sections, great for uncrowded point surf, but frustratingly restrictive in short, weak beachbreak. I never satisfied my curiousity with them, and am certain that there is more to be discovered, particularly in regards to long, thin and laterally flexible, shallow keel fins with their peak located in the rear third and having most of the base unattached, except for the front 25%. In this manner, much of the characteristic "stiffness" is eased because the long rudder is then free to bend horizontally when sideways pressure is applied, something impossible with a normal keel fin. Of course, the overall surfboard design being tested must be integrated with the keel, resulting in a serious investment of time, money and work. Depending on how one rides, the waves preferred and the type of surfcraft employed, keel fins remain a largely forgotten, yet, functional choice. Thanks for asking about this interesting, old subject, John. Dale
In "The Seedling" movie, there's a segment that shows Skip Frye discussing/shaping/riding a 12' board. I daydream of riding that thing on an empty day at Waikiki.
>>> Hey Dale - In regards to the keel fin template... I remember seeing some > keels that were brought over to California by Wayne Lynch and Nat Young in > the early 70s. The leading edge was concave to the tip (about 2/3 back) > followed by a concave trailing edge back to the base. The keel templates I > remember on the Lis fish designs had a convex leading edge and fairly > sraight vertical trailing edge. Are these (the latter) the type you are > referring to? John, I have no experience with the type of keel fin that Wayne and Nat used, my fins have primarily been 1/8" to 3/16" thin slab in various shapes, convex centrally/peaked foiled about 1" thick, conventionally foiled about 1/2" with peak and trailing edge at rear. When dual keels were used, the outer surface was foiled and the inner was usually flat. I ran them parallel and 90 degrees to the centerline of the test design, also toed in and tipped out in various amounts, positioned near the rail`s edge and as much as 3" in. Heights were in the 1 1/2" to 5" range, bases 8" to 18"; I came to prefer them with a fairing. They were made of fiberglass/resin/epoxy, microspheres, wood, laminated polyethylene, vinyl/vinyl resin, etc. attaching them to the running surface with contact adhesive, fin boxes, resin/epoxy and stainless screws tapped down into the center of the fin through the deck, much as George Greenough. I played with them on surfboards, kneeboards, bodyboards and paipos. I owe much to San Diego`s (G&S?) Steve Seebold as an early influence. My general conclusions were that many of the keels I tried were excellent when used in long, powerful waves, felt very fast and secure, but were also a bit "tight", resisting quick/sharp directional changes and lateral drifting (no surprise). In particular, on very short boards, the keels provided much longer turns and trimlines than were usually possible, linking distant sections, great for uncrowded point surf, but frustratingly restrictive in short, weak beachbreak. I never satisfied my curiousity with them, and am certain that there is more to be discovered, particularly in regards to long, thin and laterally flexible, shallow keel fins with their peak located in the rear third and having most of the base unattached, except for the front 25%. In this manner, much of the characteristic "stiffness" is eased because the long rudder is then free to bend horizontally when sideways pressure is applied, something impossible with a normal keel fin. Of course, the overall surfboard design being tested must be integrated with the keel, resulting in a serious investment of time and work. Depending on how one rides, the waves preferred and the type of surfcraft employed, keel fins remain a largely forgotten, yet, functional choice. Thanks for asking about this interesting, old subject. Dale
>>> Hey Dale - In regards to the keel fin template... I remember seeing some > keels that were brought over to California by Wayne Lynch and Nat Young in > the early 70s. The leading edge was concave to the tip (about 2/3 back) > followed by a concave trailing edge back to the base. The keel templates I > remember on the Lis fish designs had a convex leading edge and fairly > sraight vertical trailing edge. Are these (the latter) the type you are > referring to? John, I have no experience with the type of keel fin that Wayne and Nat used, my fins have primarily been 1/8" to 3/16" thin slab in various shapes, convex centrally/peaked foiled about 1" thick, conventionally foiled about 1/2" with peak and trailing edge at rear. When dual keels were used, the outer surface was foiled and the inner was usually flat. I ran them parallel and 90 degrees to the centerline of the test design, also toed in and tipped out in various amounts, positioned near the rail`s edge and as much as 3" in. Heights were in the 1 1/2" to 5" range, bases 8" to 18"; I came to prefer them with a fairing. They were made of fiberglass/resin/epoxy, microspheres, wood, laminated polyethylene, vinyl/vinyl resin, etc. attaching them to the running surface with contact adhesive, fin boxes, resin/epoxy and stainless screws tapped down into the center of the fin through the deck, much as George Greenough. I played with them on surfboards, kneeboards, bodyboards and paipos. I owe much to San Diego`s (G&S?) Steve Seebold as an early influence. My general conclusions were that many of the keels I tried were excellent when used in long, powerful waves, felt very fast and secure, but were also a bit "tight", resisting quick/sharp directional changes and lateral drifting (no surprise). In particular, on very short boards, the keels provided much longer turns and trimlines than were usually possible, linking distant sections, great for uncrowded point surf, but frustratingly restrictive in short, weak beachbreak. I never satisfied my curiousity with them, and am certain that there is more to be discovered, particularly in regards to long, thin and laterally flexible, shallow keel fins with their peak located in the rear third and having most of the base unattached, except for the front 25%. In this manner, much of the characteristic "stiffness" is eased because the long rudder is then free to bend horizontally when sideways pressure is applied, something impossible with a normal keel fin. Of course, the overall surfboard design being tested must be integrated with the keel, resulting in a serious investment of time, money and work. Depending on how one rides, the waves preferred and the type of surfcraft employed, keel fins remain a largely forgotten, yet, functional choice. Thanks for asking about this interesting, old subject, John. Dale
In "The Seedling" movie, there's a segment that shows Skip Frye discussing/shaping/riding a 12' board. I daydream of riding that thing on an empty day at Waikiki.
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