Thanks for the update. I'm glad to hear that the stock backlog might just be due to the factory moving.
The blue 0 degree inserts are the first ones I would give up, if I had to. I wouldn't mind some of the box caps until I decide to start playing with my board as a quad again.
That's funny about the blue inserts. I use probox for the blue inserts to have less cant on certain fins I love. Then I can go to red or black with other fins.
Nice to have so many options with Probox inserts, but it is a double edged sword for a tinkerer..... Too many options. Reminds me I need to sew a fin pocket into my new shortjohn.
Zero degree inserts in the quad locations on my board actually have them leaning towards each other, with the double concave in that area. It felt horrible with zero degree quad inserts with the fcs1 carbon GYU fins in them. I switched to a thruster set up in the lineup and the board came alive underfoot. But I have yet to click with my board as a quad regardless of fin or cant, and am sticking to it as a thruster for now.
Sharkcountry, dont some of your fins have canted tabs? Are these futures rail fins modified with a shortened tab?
One day I Intend to use an installed insertless levelled rail probox as a mold , and submerge a fin into reinforced slow epoxy at whatever cant and toe in I narrow in upon, as my fin experiments continues.
I bought a set of FCS H2 fins a while ago, and when I stuck them in a normal board they just didn't look right. The FCS H2 fins have 10 degrees of cant built in and a bit of toe-in, so they are designed to have quite a bit of cant and more toe. I prefer to use them with zero degree boxes, but I stuck them in a board I have that has FCS Fusion boxes with 5 degrees of cant and they worked pretty good in there too.
I made a board just for the H2 fins with zero cant boxes, and only 1/8" of toe-in. I was blown away how well the board worked. I made a second board using the same fin setup and it was even better. The first board has a lot of rocker and the other has very little rocker, but they are both little rockets. That's what makes me love the fins, I think they make the boards better. I also only use them in the thruster setup. They seem to work best that way. For quads, I'm using a Stretch fin that I like, and I have a set from Robin Mair that I like.
I cut future fins to fit FCS tabs once and when I showed it to a friend out in the water I realized that one fin was gone. Never tried to do that again.
Those FCS H2 fins look a lot like a shark pectoral fin, which is a style which I have been experimenting with on my rail fins. Mine are ridiculously high aspect ratio and obviously look bizarre though.
However, they are highly responsive pivotal rockets. Little to no self centering, and much less stability. I like them most with 8 degree inserts, and the fins themselves have ~2 degrees of cant built in, as the fin panel was intended for being a center fin and I tapered the tip towards the center halo before foiling.
Interesting the FCS H2s 10 degree canted tabs, with 0 degree inserts are very similar in cant to my fins. When I went from 6 degree inserts to 8 degree I was impressed at the increased responsiveness and general positive feel.
The cedar fin shown above is unfortunately gone, lost when the grub screw was ripped out on impact with HPLB rail. The next set of similar template fins I made, originally intending them to be rear quads when I cut them out, are slightly less deep and have even less rake towards the tip. I can overpower them at slower speeds, and at higher speeds they can turn too easily in an arc my knees cannot withstand when pushing hard. I slowed this 'overrotation' tendency down with a lower aspect center fin. A cut down version of Mr Mik's Deaweeder.
I am liking the set up below the most so far in this board. The center fin tip is clear, rebuilt after it snapped off when it was a longboard fin.
The bigger sharky fins worked well with a smaller center fin. I rebuilt the broken one, which fits my backhand rail. It got slightly bigger and thicker and even stiffer when rebuilt, and I was having some issues on that rail post rebuild. I put the smaller one back in.
The next rail fins I make, I will lean this template back a smidge and design the tabs so they can sit slightly farther back on the board. I am not really willing to give up the low drag speed and response of the super high aspect ratio with thin narrow rake free tip, but can see the need for elongating the turning radius/ adding a degree of self centering stability, and a little more low speed grip.
Too cerebral for me. I don't think about much when I'm on a wave. Everything goes into autopilot and I just do what comes instinctually. I do think that fins need a bit of rake for the style of surfing I like. I can tell when a good set of fins are in versus a set that isn't working as well, but it's usually after I get a good set of fins. I also think that a good set of fins on one board doesn't always work as well in a totally different style of board. Change a rail shape and thickness and you can make a board better or worse. The fins won't help fix that if you get it wrong.
One thing I think people get wrong when we try to copy fish anatomy is that fish flex their bodies and constantly change the shape and stiffness of their fins. We don't have that ability with rigid parts. The textures on the surfaces can also be manipulated where we can only choose one texture. I this is why inflatable mats are so much fun, they constantly change as they move along the water.
All Good Points SharkCountry.
Almost every fin since Greenough's tuna fin is Biomimicry to one degree or another, yet no surfboard fin is able to propel the board and rider like the tailfluke of a fish does. The muscles in the tailfin of a fish pushing against the upwash caused by the rake no doubt help in the forward propulsion of the fish.
But surfboard fins are reactionary, bending out of the way when swinging the board through a turn, and only once bent can they rebound and provide any forward squirt, and only for a very limited duration. How much forward squirt they impart to board and rider is very dubious in my opinion, and much more so once one has tried and gotten used to the tendencies of fins with no raked tip, to impart any squirt on the rebound.
Higher aspect ratio has noticeably less drag, and very little resistance to swinging/pivoting the board when changing direction. When i go back to a lower aspect ratio fin, the first noticeable thing is it feels like someone cranked down the truck bolts on a skateboard, and when one is not turning the board self centers. Turns are slower but solid and predictable. It also feels like one overtightened the wheel bolt to add drag. Stiff trucks and built in brakes are likely a good thing on a steep hill. Added control, but what if the hill is not so steep and one has a headwind?
My long cruiser skateboards I always liked trucks so loose that the top washer would rattle. I cannot ride my buddy's board whose trucks are much tighter. I ride his board and I lean hard and board continues straight, and I have to put a foot down. My board I lean and the board easily swings under me. I am used to it, I like this. Personal preference
His board is set up for how he likes to ride it, and so is mine. The high aspect fins super tight turning radius is not something I am willing to give up at this point, nor their obvious lower drag.
The Probox's ability to allow me to experiment with fins to test and refine the feel is wonderful. I wish there were others nearby who had Proboxes in their board and were willing to try something outside the norm. I am not willing to shape some half moons into the base for my fins to fit gearbox
I've found a few to try MrMik's longboard fins. One guy surfed such a fin with way more amplitude on the wave, yet came back and said it did not have the squirt out of a turn. Yet the fin he was riding in this board was so stiff it was unlikely that the tip flexing out of the way could impart any accelleration at the end of a turn. I thought his surfing looked better with the HAR fin, sharper tighter turns in the pocket, yet he preferred a normal looking fin.
I lent one of mrMik's Harftub fins with 6.5 turbucles to Zak Flores who rode it in his 'midlength' and said he loved it, but not so much in his longboards.
One other guy, an older experienced surfer with lots of ability, whom I lent a fin to, and then did not see for 6 months, I heard from others through the grapevine, that he was raving how much he liked the fin, how fast and loose it was. Being one of the earliest of Mr Mik's 3d printed fins with no reinforcement from base up into fin and a weaker filament used, it had broken. When I saw him recently he was frothing like a little kid, and almost begged me for another. I sent him off with the fin the other guy said did not squirt out of turns, and one of the newest of Mr miks g-whale fins, thin and quite flexible. If he thought the other fin was fast and loose, the G-whale fin should blow his mind, except i think it is too flexible for his weight. But he rides a HPLB with sidebites whereas My Lb is heavy and traditional and I have found that very flexible fins unseat the rail of the board after a hard turn, and are squishy during it.
I think i will draw out some H2 looking templates to try, even though they are lower aspect ratio than what is currently floating my boat.
"One thing I think people get wrong when we try to copy fish anatomy is that fish flex their bodies and constantly change the shape and stiffness of their fins. We don't have that ability with rigid parts."
^ dug this -- seems an obvious point to make, but yet is seldom made.
Too cerebral for me too.I can tell when they're working and letting me surf the way I like to surf. Or,not. I don't like flex if the waves have some juice. Small chest and head high days it's fun to have a flex fin. It's all personal. Like shoes. I would only add to sharkcountry's comment that shark fins flex, but are not movable like the bony fishes. Maybe look to that model for biomimicry. Particularly the leading edge angles. We move through the water slower than most all the fish. Mike