For a light strong longboard I am considering 3 layers of 4 oz cloth instead of 2 layers of 6 oz.-Wouldn't it be lighter and stronger and perhaps less resin? Your thoughts?
>>> For a light strong longboard I am considering 3 layers of 4 oz cloth > instead of 2 layers of 6 oz.-Wouldn't it be lighter and stronger and > perhaps less resin? Your thoughts? Dont know, But I'll add another brain twister to the mix. What is more durable: A light blank with heavy glassing, or a high density blank with lighter glassing?
>>> For a light strong longboard I am considering 3 layers of 4 oz cloth > instead of 2 layers of 6 oz.-Wouldn't it be lighter and stronger and > perhaps less resin? Your thoughts? e else It may be heavier but I believe that the three layers of 4 will be stonger. It has to do with the layering. That's just my thoughts, anyon
i'm inclined to think that 3 layers of 4oz. would be stronger, not necessarily lighter, and probably trickier (for a novice laminator, anyways), since you have to worry about full saturation, air bubbles, and wrapping rails through 3 layers instead of 2..>>> For a light strong longboard I am considering 3 layers of 4 oz cloth > instead of 2 layers of 6 oz.-Wouldn't it be lighter and stronger and > perhaps less resin? Your thoughts?
3 layers of 4 oz is the same thickness as 2 layers of 6 oz. (Hexcell Handbook) You get more strength with the 3 of 4 oz. This is based upon standard surfboard cloths. For a light strong longboard I am considering 3 layers of 4 oz cloth > instead of 2 layers of 6 oz.-Wouldn't it be lighter and stronger and > perhaps less resin? Your thoughts? http://www.viser.net/~anthwind/
>>> 3 layers of 4 oz is the same thickness as 2 layers of 6 oz. (Hexcell > Handbook) You get more strength with the 3 of 4 oz. This is based upon > standard surfboard cloths.>>> For a light strong longboard I am considering 3 layers of 4 oz cloth Would you need more resin for three layers? becaue there's resin (a small amount) below and on top of each layer of cloth?
>>> Would you need more resin for three layers? becaue there's resin (a small > amount) below and on top of each layer of cloth? Laminated properly, the result with multiple 4 oz. cloth is a higher glass to resin content... more flex and resiliency, less brittle. What I used for building flex spoon paipos... 42" long, softly triangular template @ 32" across the back allows for a good bit of a twist.
>>> Laminated properly, the result with multiple 4 oz. cloth is a higher glass > to resin content... more flex and resiliency, less brittle. What I used > for building flex spoon paipos... 42" long, softly triangular > template @ 32" across the back allows for a good bit of a twist. I frequently use three layers of four oz. with no noticable increase in weight. I use this schedule for exactly the reasons Dale mentions,"more flex and resiliency, less brittle." In addition, four oz. has the advantage of two layers being left if you happen to hit the cloth while sanding-which I often do! Patrick Shannon
>>> I frequently use three layers of four oz. with no noticable increase in > weight. I use this schedule for exactly the reasons Dale > mentions,"more flex and resiliency, less brittle." In addition, > four oz. has the advantage of two layers being left if you happen to hit > the cloth while sanding-which I often do! Patrick Shannon I'll second (third) that and raise you one. Resin between glass layers adds very little unsupported weight. Fibers from upper and lower layers interlock. Interlocking bonds layers, adds strength, and reduces weight by displacing resin. However the surfaces above and below the lam add lots of resin weight, and no strength. Larger weaves (heavier fabrics) carry a larger load of resin above and below the lam. Per square yard of lam, lets say a 4 oz lam carries an extra 2 oz of resin above and below the lam, regardless of the number of 4 oz layers. Conversely, a 6 oz layup would carry, maybe 3 oz of extra surface resin per square yard, regardless of the number of 6 oz layers. The point? You'll have less extra resin weight with lighter-weight glass. However, I think the ratio of unsupported resin to total lam weight in a three layer schedule remains the same, regardless of the weight of glass fabric. Multiple glass layers become strong because you separate whole glass layers. When you stress fiberglass, it bends. This bending stretches the outside layer and compresses the inside layer. The wider you separate glass layers, the farther they become from the opposing forces. That separation means that the outside layers need less strength to resist the same compression and stretching forces. That said, I think strength/weight ratio gains turn over at about three glass layers. That's because the strength additions from separating outside layers falls victim to the stresses which break the bonds between layers. The bottom line? For optimum strength/weight ratios, choose 3 glass layers. If you want more strength, use 3-sixes. If you need less strength, use 3-fours.
>>> Laminated properly, the result with multiple 4 oz. cloth is a higher glass > to resin content... more flex and resiliency, less brittle. What I used > for building flex spoon paipos... 42" long, softly triangular > template @ 32" across the back allows for a good bit of a twist. How funny! A spoon paipo, just what I want to build! And I was asking a question about glassing and cloth and the very person to answer... how about that. But seeing as you bring it up, 32"? was that from a mold? I was looking at the 6'2"C clark blank on saturday and that seemed very wide to me at 24" (not that I would know, this will be my first board). Not to mention I will have to cut it down a whole bunch. I am riding one of Paul Lindberghs paipos now, so I am looking for more float for kneeboarding on small to medium waves. But perhaps this is getting a little off topic?
>>> Dont know, But I'll add another brain twister to the mix. What is more > durable: A light blank with heavy glassing, or a high density blank with > lighter glassing? That depends on the qualities of the blank foam and the composite shell. If you want a poly/poly board to last, use a dense blank and a light glass schedule. However, at some point the glass will crack, and the foam below it will turn to powder. That's how these materials fail, they're brittle. Use an epoxy composite shell over a beaded foam blank and the equation turns over. These materials are resillient on smaller scales. If you want such a board to last, use lighter weight foam, with 3 and 4 layers of 5 or 6 oz glass, usually the stronger varieties of fabric. Lam it with epoxy. You'll get a few dents, but the forces required to make such a board fail are far greater, over many more flex cycles that any poly/poly board, regardless of makeup.
>>> For a light strong longboard I am considering 3 layers of 4 oz cloth > instead of 2 layers of 6 oz.-Wouldn't it be lighter and stronger and > perhaps less resin? Your thoughts? Dont know, But I'll add another brain twister to the mix. What is more durable: A light blank with heavy glassing, or a high density blank with lighter glassing?
>>> For a light strong longboard I am considering 3 layers of 4 oz cloth > instead of 2 layers of 6 oz.-Wouldn't it be lighter and stronger and > perhaps less resin? Your thoughts? e else It may be heavier but I believe that the three layers of 4 will be stonger. It has to do with the layering. That's just my thoughts, anyon
i'm inclined to think that 3 layers of 4oz. would be stronger, not necessarily lighter, and probably trickier (for a novice laminator, anyways), since you have to worry about full saturation, air bubbles, and wrapping rails through 3 layers instead of 2..>>> For a light strong longboard I am considering 3 layers of 4 oz cloth > instead of 2 layers of 6 oz.-Wouldn't it be lighter and stronger and > perhaps less resin? Your thoughts?
3 layers of 4 oz is the same thickness as 2 layers of 6 oz. (Hexcell Handbook) You get more strength with the 3 of 4 oz. This is based upon standard surfboard cloths. For a light strong longboard I am considering 3 layers of 4 oz cloth > instead of 2 layers of 6 oz.-Wouldn't it be lighter and stronger and > perhaps less resin? Your thoughts? http://www.viser.net/~anthwind/
>>> 3 layers of 4 oz is the same thickness as 2 layers of 6 oz. (Hexcell > Handbook) You get more strength with the 3 of 4 oz. This is based upon > standard surfboard cloths.>>> For a light strong longboard I am considering 3 layers of 4 oz cloth Would you need more resin for three layers? becaue there's resin (a small amount) below and on top of each layer of cloth?
>>> Would you need more resin for three layers? becaue there's resin (a small > amount) below and on top of each layer of cloth? Laminated properly, the result with multiple 4 oz. cloth is a higher glass to resin content... more flex and resiliency, less brittle. What I used for building flex spoon paipos... 42" long, softly triangular template @ 32" across the back allows for a good bit of a twist.
>>> Laminated properly, the result with multiple 4 oz. cloth is a higher glass > to resin content... more flex and resiliency, less brittle. What I used > for building flex spoon paipos... 42" long, softly triangular > template @ 32" across the back allows for a good bit of a twist. I frequently use three layers of four oz. with no noticable increase in weight. I use this schedule for exactly the reasons Dale mentions,"more flex and resiliency, less brittle." In addition, four oz. has the advantage of two layers being left if you happen to hit the cloth while sanding-which I often do! Patrick Shannon
>>> I frequently use three layers of four oz. with no noticable increase in > weight. I use this schedule for exactly the reasons Dale > mentions,"more flex and resiliency, less brittle." In addition, > four oz. has the advantage of two layers being left if you happen to hit > the cloth while sanding-which I often do! Patrick Shannon I'll second (third) that and raise you one. Resin between glass layers adds very little unsupported weight. Fibers from upper and lower layers interlock. Interlocking bonds layers, adds strength, and reduces weight by displacing resin. However the surfaces above and below the lam add lots of resin weight, and no strength. Larger weaves (heavier fabrics) carry a larger load of resin above and below the lam. Per square yard of lam, lets say a 4 oz lam carries an extra 2 oz of resin above and below the lam, regardless of the number of 4 oz layers. Conversely, a 6 oz layup would carry, maybe 3 oz of extra surface resin per square yard, regardless of the number of 6 oz layers. The point? You'll have less extra resin weight with lighter-weight glass. However, I think the ratio of unsupported resin to total lam weight in a three layer schedule remains the same, regardless of the weight of glass fabric. Multiple glass layers become strong because you separate whole glass layers. When you stress fiberglass, it bends. This bending stretches the outside layer and compresses the inside layer. The wider you separate glass layers, the farther they become from the opposing forces. That separation means that the outside layers need less strength to resist the same compression and stretching forces. That said, I think strength/weight ratio gains turn over at about three glass layers. That's because the strength additions from separating outside layers falls victim to the stresses which break the bonds between layers. The bottom line? For optimum strength/weight ratios, choose 3 glass layers. If you want more strength, use 3-sixes. If you need less strength, use 3-fours.
>>> Laminated properly, the result with multiple 4 oz. cloth is a higher glass > to resin content... more flex and resiliency, less brittle. What I used > for building flex spoon paipos... 42" long, softly triangular > template @ 32" across the back allows for a good bit of a twist. How funny! A spoon paipo, just what I want to build! And I was asking a question about glassing and cloth and the very person to answer... how about that. But seeing as you bring it up, 32"? was that from a mold? I was looking at the 6'2"C clark blank on saturday and that seemed very wide to me at 24" (not that I would know, this will be my first board). Not to mention I will have to cut it down a whole bunch. I am riding one of Paul Lindberghs paipos now, so I am looking for more float for kneeboarding on small to medium waves. But perhaps this is getting a little off topic?
>>> Dont know, But I'll add another brain twister to the mix. What is more > durable: A light blank with heavy glassing, or a high density blank with > lighter glassing? That depends on the qualities of the blank foam and the composite shell. If you want a poly/poly board to last, use a dense blank and a light glass schedule. However, at some point the glass will crack, and the foam below it will turn to powder. That's how these materials fail, they're brittle. Use an epoxy composite shell over a beaded foam blank and the equation turns over. These materials are resillient on smaller scales. If you want such a board to last, use lighter weight foam, with 3 and 4 layers of 5 or 6 oz glass, usually the stronger varieties of fabric. Lam it with epoxy. You'll get a few dents, but the forces required to make such a board fail are far greater, over many more flex cycles that any poly/poly board, regardless of makeup.
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