"The latest major change has been back to older designs, not onward to modern tech." Actually that was the second to last change. The latest change is going on right now. Timmy Patterson just showed me his latest twin fin which is actually now his stock twin fin. Completely redesigned from the twin fin he was making 15 or 20 years ago. Modern shortboard type rails, modern bottom, computer cut, modern blank, redesigned fin template and 40z glassjob. The only thing old or retro about that board was the outline ( even that has been tweaked) and the fact that it has 2 fins(well actually he's added a tiny trailer fin so disregard that as well). He also showed me a fish that he wants to make into a quad that had all the same above mentioned modernizations done to it. Matt Biolas is turning some of his MRs into quads as well and tweaking the shapes around a bit. Pavels Keel fish and quad fish have been going through constant streamlining over the last couple years. Tomorrow i'm going to see Chris Christenson who has 10 quad fishies waiting for me and he is asking for modern fins so he can experiment with the boards. Doc at Surf precriptions does a fish with a bit more modern outline, single foiled fins with some cant and toed in 3/16ths. The CI fish may be pretty beefy when they get over 5'10", but they also use single foiled fins toed in a 1/4" with cant and concaved bottoms. Rusty is doing a keel Fish called the Mod (modern) fish. Racey outline, sanded finish, 40z fins that have quite a bit of flex that are toed and canted. I have a 5'10 Jim Phillips quad fish with beaded foam glassed with RR resin that weighs 4 1/2 pounds. Even the Hobie guys are trying to spruce up their fish and make it work a bit better. The most "retro" mass produced fish out there right now is probably the Kane Gardens which still have straight up and down, double foiled wood fins that don't flex and have very little toe in. Most others have moved on... If you see a fish outline out there and just assume it's a throwback to the board you had difficulty riding way back when, you should just look a little closer and you'll see the changes. Calling them "old" designs isn't very accurate.
BTW do any of those boards in epoxy and you knock off about 4 pounds of weight from what they were 30 years ago. That in itself is a major change IMHO. Also most of the boards i mentioned have way more modern rockers and bottoms (not dead flat) then they had back then which uh, cough cough...makes 'em work better!? Saying nobody is trying anything new is completely unfair to all those shapers mentioned. Sorry
I love alot of the more moder versions of retro and keep in mind. Every single thing ever made works to some degree. It depends on what your after in your surfing. Also some of the older ideas and outlines have never been improved on. The problem I see with taking some of those older designs and saying your putting modern rails and stuff on them by utilizing where todays thrusters designs are today, really does not improve the designs at all. What made most of them magic was the float, the glide and the drive. I agree lowering the weight on some of them is an improvement. I think the so called Neo Twin fin Lost is doing by M.R. does not improve on his orginial design at all. It's simply made to look more palatable to todays kids who think anything over 18.5'' is too wide.
I still agree with Greg on the old school fish thing. We got off those and old pluggy singles for a reason. Mccoy/ M.R., Hurely and a host of others made twinnies that actually worked all around back then and are still valid designs, The first phase of thrusters to me is still modern, when put with modern foam or epoxy, and wide tailed singles with softer edges work great for singlefins today. I don't see much point in riding a twinnie like an old school fish that was designed for a couple of moves, or a heavy longboard for beachbreaks, or a toothpick thruster for 180lbs intermediate surfer. Much of it is truly a fad.
I still love all the nice glasswork done on these old board copies though. It's really really hard not to appreciate the craftsmanship on these and maybe that simple time is why many want to go back to.
After all, it is all about the feeling anyway...isn't it?
Sorry but i have to disagree a bit. Gotta love the net! I started surfing in Greggs neck of the woods in central florida around '77 on singles and then onto twins, and eventually tri fins. Unfortunately nowadays my local spot that has the best waves is swamis. First few years i surfed all thrusters out there and didn't get squat for waves. Nowadays i'll surf it up to ten foot faces on a 6'0" pavel quad fish, and just because of its float and glide my wave count has tripled out there. I also make almost any section out there and end up doing some crazy fast floater in the kiddy bowl or backdoor the tube where i usually had already been closed out on, on the thruster. I've also done some of the best cutbacks in my life there on that board (my cutty is my strong point) and gotten spit out of countless barrels and cracked many a lip especially backside on the left believe it or not. The board has modern pinched rails so it rides the tube, and a double to single concave off the tail which is real skatey. I also own a completely retro fish and i haven't ridden it in 2 years. You wouldn't catch me dead out in those waves on that board. On the quad fish...no prob.
Wave count number slightly buffered by drop in factor.
I always thought it was appropriate when ZZ Top realizing all their songs sounded similar to some degree and that they were recycling their standard chops, named their album Recycler. Hey why not? NO BS there:-)
Greg re-thought and redid the fish 5 years ago.Totally tweaked eighties outline 90's bottom and deck. MVGs on the tips of the tail. Favorite board ever. In EPS and RR epoxy. I still use it. There is supposedy a new one waiting for me in FL too:-) He can describe it better. I believe he did rather well with the model. Called it the TFS for Tuna Fin System. Everyone who tried it loved it. One guy, a former Pipe Master, blasted a 2'er on it.
Point is I look to Greg for leadership because chances are he did it five years ago. Five years is a long time. So long in fact that he's over it years before anyone else is trying it. Kinda makes it hard to get any recognition though. But you know all that.
Lol, no question Gregg is the man! What he was doing way back when with Bill Hartley was ahead of everyone. Was just trying to defend all the board guys out here a bit because they really are trying to step up quite a bit and make better boards. While epoxy certainly has it's benefits, there can be more to making a "better" board than just construction methods.
Newport point this morning for your enjoyment
Wow! That's beautiful.
Now that I'm surfing again, I actually feel it.
I don't know how Greg stays ahead of himself???
I heard today his west coast operation is outpacing his original east coast location. Sounds like the board guys out your way are falling in line.
I have a feeling it's all going to snowball real soon.
To totally agree design comes first. It drives the need for better construction methods and materials. Leastways I'm of the opinion it should.
Sadly I thinks the old saw here is that over the last ten years design has stagnated, because the materials are the same.
But who cares. I'm going to look at that picture some more.
Was anyone going right?
"Was anyone going right?" I was
So were some guys with less than adequate manners.