Hello Eric, I'll keep posting reports of my blue xps/epoxy process. I'm interested to hear updates from how your pink project is going too. In fact your original pink xps thread is what got me to the point where I could contain myself no longer and set about satisfying my urge to build something. All your details about innovative use of bags of cement etc is interesting so I'll attempt to maintain this level of detail.
when I did the 2/0.9oz mix I didn't make it clear that I was using this for the 5 future fin boxes. I needed only about 2 thirds of this amount to put in the 5 boxes. Satisfied that my kitchen scales which measures in units of 0.1 of an ounce was producing a settable mix I decided to lam the hull this morning. Despite reading the thread about reverse laps its been many years since I last glassed and the flat underneath looked like it would lose less resin to the floor than the domed deck. the 32 oz yoghurt containers that I had been washing in the dishwasher and storing for no good reason now come in handy for the mix. I measure d 8 oz of part A to 3.5oz of part B. The strategy I had planned was designed to get me a high probability of success but not necessarily a good or efficient way of laminating. By mixing less than I needed I figured I could lam one side of the imaginary stringer, do another mix then lam the other side. I had spare mixing pots ready. I also lammed just 1 layer of 4oz S-glass in the belief that it would be much easier to push the epoxy thru just one layer. As it turned out that mix was enough - just. although I followed the strategy of saturating just one side and wrapping before attempting to saturate and wrap the other rail. Within 15-20 min the resin had changed from runny polyester consistency to a thicker treacle, however unlike poly it does not gel and just gets thicker - therefore does not turn into an emergency situation in 5 mins. The whole process was finished in 30min - some fiddling round the future boxes needed - I had cut slits to cope with the lip next to the slot which looked almost as hard as channels - any other suggestions on this? squeegee used was a cheap disposable from TAP plastics. To overcome the resin kick apprehension I stirred with a plastic spoon for 3 minutes. I had noted that when stirring non emulsified peanut butter, the oil and peanut paste combined much quicker when stirring with a spoon than a knife. I then went to the office to sit in my cubicle.
I was not able to come home lunchtime to check the lamination. The department I work for is closing down/going thru an aquisition and decided to have a barbequeue. This explains why I have had way too much time on my hands hanging out at swaylocks dreaming of surfboards. This situation won't last forever so It also explains my need to build quickly with available materials rather than searching for the cheapest/perfect foam etc. I arrived home at 5pm to find all was well, the glass spikes on the laps were just a bit too soft to grind with my dremel tool and I couldn't be bothered to cut them all with a knife. So I decided to put the next layer of 4oz on top of the semi cured lam on the hull. I figured that if 8/3.5 mix was needed on non sealed foam then less would be needed on top of a lam. So I did a 6/2.6oz mix this time. That was enough with a little to spare. I've been fairly concious to keep weight down so maybe if I flooded things a bit more I wouldn't have so many little airbubbles. But never mind, I'm not too worried what it looks like and I haven't botherede to do a spray job on the foam. One of the things about hot wire cutting a blank is that the spare top and bottom pieces make a nice rocker table. My blank has no stringer and therefore I don't want it flexing during lamination. I narrowed the spare top piece to give me room to squeegee the laps and placed it on top of my ironing board. It was good to see the ironing board finally get some use as a laminating stand. Shaping was done by using the spare pieces on top of my computer table. I'm anticipating relocating shortly so its not worth me building a proper shaping stand. Anyway laminating went fairly smoothly and afterwards I sealed off the door of the room with masking tape and went in to the living area. I'll be sleeping on my convertible futon/sofa tonight. As a bit of background information, I am building this board in the bedroom of my 1 bedroom apartment.
Building indoors and in an apartment! Oh man - I'll never complain about my little dirty shed again! You are commited. (somebody lend this man a shaping room before he laminates his socks to the floor). You said you taped the door - for odor? how bad was the smell from epoxy? I've had the neighbors complain about poly smell when I've laminated in the shed so avoiding that is one of my reasons for an interest in epoxy. Good info on the lam amounts. That helps take the edge off of the price of epoxy. My plans are to color the foam with a layer of colored epoxy resin (foam stain) to cover the pink, then laminate clear - or maybe very lightly tinted - epoxy over that. I'm toying with the idea of a carbon fiber strip inlayed into the deck, like a faux stringer, to give a bit more stiffness and strength to the deck - like yours no stringer in this board. 3 layers of 6 on top and two on the bottom. I'm not too concerned with the weight going up - I ride a 6'6" twin that I built last year - classic foam and 2x6 over 1x6 and glossed - It weighs over 10 pounds (!) and I like the way is surfs. Otherwise I still need to gather the laminating materials so it'll be some time before I get this board done. Next step for me is the filling of rough spots and dings with spackle, fine sanding the blank, then when the laminating stuff arrives - setting fin boxes, coloring, and lamination... and so on. Considering make a fin or two too. Best, Eric J
Hello Eric, I have already laminated my socks, but not to the floor. I've been wearing open sandals over them to do the glassing. This way I can easily step out of them and off the poly tarp and not get resin on the carpet. Masking tape on edges of bedroom door was to stop vapour. Although barely noticeable for future box installation, glassing the hull did produce a vapour. Not strong but didn't smell healthy. Epoxy used to have a very bad reputation for being toxic, but from browsing swaylocks I get the impression it has shaken this off. I did wear a mask. Your neigbours won't notice the smell. No complaints from mine so far. I waited until the occupant from the apartment below me had vacated before I did the shaping - the electric planer does scream. If anything they will get fed up with the incessant vacuum cleaning that I'm doing.
no glassing before work this morning. I'm instructed to be in my cubicle by 9am - sounds ominous. I find out that the aquisition is going ahead and that I'm wanted for another 6 months. I was hoping to get layed off and sent back to Australia, but this scenario is OK, America is a cool place. In fact it never ceases to amaze me with its business activity. For example consider plastic fabrication. This would normally be strictly a fringe or industrial activity anywhere in the world except here. I live near a trendy part of silicon valley that has this street full of restaurants and coffee shops where the geeks and entepreneurs hang out. Right in the middle of this street opposite the bookshop is a plastic fabrication retail outlet. Its got polyester surfboard resins, squeegees and all sorts of stuff. I found out that the disposable squeegees sold there can be re-used, just break off the set epoxy, but good to have at least 2 so that uninterrupted laminating can take place. Anyway I get to glass this evening. A bit warmer and I wonder if I will get a better result by doing two separate mixes. The deck today. The heavier 6oz s-glass will need more resin so I mix up a 6/2.7 oz mix to start with and laminate the left side of the board. I try to flood the resin on a bit more at the expense of losing some to the floor. I'm trying for less airbubbles today. I get the left rail and just over half of the deck done and then go and mix a 4/1.8 oz pot. The quantities are spot on but doing 2 mixes sort of disrupts my flow and the result is not much better. hmmm perhaps I should have got the glassing 101 video first, anyone know when the master glassing DVD is coming out? I'm satisfied though, I'm well on my way to getting a rideable board and I'm not fussy about the appearance. However I still have plenty of opportunity to mess up. Anyone willing to rent me their sanding bay and sander? I'm already pushing the envelope with what can be done in apartment and I'm still hoping to get my rent deposit back , so not planning on sanding in here. I could just take it to a factory, but doing it myself would be more fun and I could control how deep the sander goes. From what I remember I was a better sander than glasser.
went for a surf this morning. So late start to glassing today - the second layer of 6oz to go on the deck. Its starting to heat up in the valley by early afternoon but I'm sufficiently confident by now to aim for a single mix of 8/3.5 oz and just to see what its like push it thru 2 layers with a tail patch. As it turns out not quite enough resin. Although I'm getting better at this and was able to tip a greater initial quantity without spilling on the floor. No big deal to mix a bit extra. The tail patch looks a bit aerated so I use some of this second mix to baste it which does fill the bubbles. It seems at least part of the cause of my bubble riddled glass job is laminating too dry. My idea of sealing the blank with an initial laminate is sort of working in that the second laminate absorbs less resin, but maybe your plans for a foam stain will work better Eric. Or I should have sealed with something else first, or I should accept a heavier board and be more generous with the resin on the first layer of glass. I've also made the mistake of not grinding down the rough edges of the first lap well enough which introduced some bubbles where the deck and hull layers meet. Any advice/comments from anyone on what I am doing are welcome. At least with this method I do get twice as much practise at glassing this one board.
Hello Eric, it was my 6' 2" single concave I used today. It went fine in side onshore semi windswell generated in the gulf of Alaska. This board was done for me by a professional shaper who surfs very well and had shaped some concave boards for himself. Off topic, but I've met some shapers who have lost interest in the act of going surfing, doesn't mean they are bad shapers though. I've just measured the concave with a straight edge and it is no more than 3mm. This shaper believed that more concave would give too wild a ride in a heavily textured surface, but don't let the stop you putting more in if you want to. The 6' 6" twin you made, what are its vital statistics and how does it ride?
its sunday now and another surf this morning before resuming building. I've decided to be brave and hot coat the deck with polyester. The makers of sb112 say that polyester will stick over overnight cured unsanded woven texture glass job. Its been almost 24 hrs so I give a light sand and use the dremel tool to take off all the spikes and bits hanging down from the laps. I suppose an expert wouldn't need to do this but I'm a messy glasser. I pigment the resin white. I know that sanding is going to produce a very patchy looking result but I'm planning on covering the whole lot up with coloured acrylic sealer. This way I can also get an appreciation as to how deep into the laminate I am sanding. Part of the rationale behind all this is the statement from the manufacturers that no epoxy, sb112 included is UV resistant. The hull has already had a couple of days of curing so I'll put epoxy on that to avoid the risk of polyester peeling off. I mix up 12 oz of polyester. This is probably too much but its cheaper than epoxy and the multiple mix method isnt going to work as well for hot-coating as glassing. A few minutes into brushing the hot coat I get the horrible feeling that the laminate is absorbing it - in fact I'm convinced my pinhole riddled board is soaking it up. This is of course disastrous on a styrofoam blank. Dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit - not the actual words I am repeating to myself, but you get the picture. I quickly brush the bare areas and then plonk two empty yoghurt carton mixing pots on my rocker table and rest the board wet resin side down on these in the hope that gravity will keep too much resin from eating the foam. Assessing the damage I've now got smudged rails where I handled the board to turn it over, I've abandonded the hoat coating without following the proper brush stroke sequence, probably will have two rings resembling coffee mug marks where the mixing pots are supporting. But worst of all there would be foam eaten cavities hidden behind the glass. When the resin has set I give it some pressure tests with my thumb on the pinholed areas which are inconclusive. More investigation is needed so I choose a bit of the tail which has some pinholes and use the dremel tool to cut away a disk of laminate into which the deck plug can fit. The fiberglass when peeled off doesn't show any evidence of white polyester leaking, but I'm still convinced my laminate was absorbing resin. It certainly has pinholes. Why oh why did I have to be too experimental. I've already covered new ground (for myself) with xps and a home designed rocker which I single handedly hot wired, I should have gone the safer all epoxy route. I don't know what condition the most polyester saturated parts of the deck is in. But I think I can still get a rideable board. Not sure how well it will resist water. Certainly don't need any thermovents anyway. I'm not sure whether its worth trying to get it sanded properly now. Maybe just epoxy hot coat the underneath, do a rough sand job by hand and try surfing it.
Hey Mr.J - i wouldn't be too concerned with the poly getting in a few pinholes. likely that it would set before it did too much damage. And how much would get through the pinholes anyway? I can't think too much, but if you are more comfortable with it use the epoxy for the sanding coat(s). If I were out there I'd lend you my sander and shed... but I'm in NY - so no can do. If needed, a good sander can be gotten for very little money at Harborfrieght.com. You can archive some of Herbs posts on these. I have two of the 7" versions (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46507), but there is a 6" for even less (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45479). Sanding in your apt. is a little nuts. but at least the epoxy dust is a bit kinder (I Think) than poly would be. Seal the room off and grind away - or, if there is an outside area you can use, that might be best. I'd take down the big lumps by hand with a surform tool first, not as dusty. Then wack down the bigger high spots with 80 grit. That will probably make a huge mess. If that gets everything nice and level, maybe you can do the rest by hand and keep the dust to a minimum? wet sanding, when things get finer, will keep the dust down too - but not sure if it would be too good of an idea to do that inside - with and apartment below you? -------------------------- I tested some colors for foam stain technique on some xps scraps. White Epoxy pigment - in the tube from the marine store with some of the west system epoxy (a small amount just for the test) does an OK job covering the pink - there will be some show through it seems - but it is still a big improvement over the bright pink. Blue pigment (originally purchased and used for polyester resin) seems to work as good, and the foam and epoxy all look fine with this pigment used too. -------------- *Anyone* - Greg L., Sluggo, etc - know if I'm making a big problem for myself with using the resin pigments labeled for poly with epoxy - it seems to work - but I've only tested it and don't want big delam problems down the road. Are the pigments essentially the same for poly and epoxy? --------------- I bought a few of the clear plastic cups for measuring and eyeballed the ratios to the lines on the cup. Worked fine - and one test involved laminating some cloth which produced a rock hard, sandable surface in 24 hours. Not bad but I'm going to get impatient with this I'm sure. Spoiled by Suncure - but it's great that epoxy doesn't smell. The 6'6" twin is (from memory since I'm at work) 17" x 22.5" x 16" x 3.25". Wide point forward 3" (I think). Fish tail - 11" point to point 6.5" deep cleft. Standard twin fin set from Fiberglass supply.com - which look like wide based thruster side-fins set 12" up from the points. flat bottom, low rocker - 3" forward/1" rear. The stringer is 1/4 (not sure of the wood). rails are a little hard in the tail but very soft everywhere else. Rails in the nose are a bit thinned out compared to the mid and rear-end. Blank was canibilized from an old single fat wing-pin beater (a Charlie Bunger, actually the first board I ever owned) That was probably a cut down/reshaped longboard. I got the board sometime around 1978 and it was already pretty beat-up and old. Yes - heartless of me to strip an old classic beater - and my first board - but I like the twin 'much' better than the original. blank is colored with tempura paints - my 7 year-old daughter helped me mix the colors - teal bottom, green and blue panels on the deck, black pins on the foam. Suncure lamination - 2x6 top, 1x6 bottom. with a thick sanding coat and then a thick gloss coat. It's very easy to catch waves on, fast and just plows over and through chop. very loose too. holds and carves when you set it on a rail but can also be slid and twisted around easily when ridden flat - so much flat, not much fin. Whew... sorry for the long post. Pau, EJ