My latest projects have been bicycles. I'm still interested in board building, but I pretty much have a stable full. I think the guys cheaping epoxy glass jobs are giving epoxy boards a bad rep. Dinged up epoxy sticks are worse than dinged up poly sticks. Surfers are better off buying poly junk than epoxy junk. It's cheaper. A strong epoxy glass job is still much lighter than even a decent poly glass job. I'm thinking it really is possible to eliminate amine blush, and I really hate sanding glass. It's not good for the glass or me. If you neutralize the blush, you'd just have a neutral blush. If you reabsorbed the blush, you'd just have a weaker epoxy. You're probably neurtalizing AND absorbing it... something like ...cholinestrase. That's probably not it because it doesn't have exactly the correct properties. But I'll bet a dollar I'm in the right field.
Thanks Noodle for taking your time. I did skip sand the laps, but propably not enough. I think that might be the problem. However, I don't feel that sanding the glass is a very good idea(not all that much anyway and still the low spots in the weave would not be sanded or you would have some major glass burns). How about 'basting' the area after the lam has set a little, but before it's dry and then sand? Ever tried this? Might be a good idea for laps anyway, for a full resin color inlay it might add some weight. Some epoxy resins manufacturers claim that if you laminate the next layer within x hours(typical 12, 24 or 48 hours)it will stick just as well as wet in wet. Have you (or anyone else for that matter) ever tried this? The lam is 3 top, 2 bottom 6oz. I've never really checked the density of the EPS, but it's pretty lightweight(it all is I guess). The dings I've got is mainly from hitting rocks. I've swung the board around to put it on the roof-rack of my car and hit the edge of a traffic sign. The glass separated from the underlaying bottom layer, but it's still hard, no crack. The ding I've got was caused by a board hitting my board square on the rail with the fin at good speed causing a 5mm deep, 10mm wide crack. In both cases I wouldn't expect anything more from a poly board, but it seems like I'm not getting the full strength of the epoxy when it separates the way it does. I'm sorry Greg, but since I can't get your epoxy at any reasonable cost I'm going to stick to the one I can get, even if it has some amine blush. It's not bad, I don't think an untrained eye or someone who didn't know what to look for would see it. Bdw. what did you do before you had Additive F? And how does the Additive F differ from what my epoxy supplier calls a 'reactive thinner'? regards, Håvard
Greg's info on epoxy has been invaluable, and he certainly hasn't gone over the top on promoting his products. He's been pushing the envelope with this material for a long time, and it's just a fact that his stuff works. Having someone of his caliber contributing to this forum is what brings a lot of us here.
Jeepers Greg, If your not using Additive F your wasting your time? If that doesn't sound like self promotion, I don't know what it sounds like. I really don't think Harvard gives a rats ass over in Europe about additive F. Again, there are a lot of quality epoxy formulators out there besides your product. Especially in Europe. Jono
Harvard, I don't know if doping would work, but I doubt it. I've used one of the formulas which claimed you could lam over it within a few hours. However, I didn't follow their advice. Testing it didn't convince me. The surface still looked like candy. And overall, I was unimpressed with their expensive formula. The problem is adhesion, in doping or lamination. Yes, you have to thoroughly sand the glass... even into the dips. But take heart. If you have bumps, they should represent thicker glass. Sanding would merely make the bumps conform to the rest of the glass job. Sanding away glass is another reason why you have to use plenty of glass. I sand it to where I can barely see tiny mirror surface dots in the dips. Lots of people are trying to make epoxy boards without the required work. It's dirty, but you hafta do it. I sometimes wish I owned a space suit.
"Jono" is Paul Gross? That explains everything. Thanks Greg!
Greg's a fine craftsman,too bad you can't see the trees from the forest,razzor.
Blush is a reaction between the amine curing agent and moisture in the air. ALL amine curing agents do this to some extent depending on the formulation and the ambient conditions. To eliminate blush you need to eliminate contact between the two and Additive F is a surfacing agent that does this. It does it in such a way so as not to deter further coating the way wax solution does in polyester. I'm sorry Havard doesn't, at this time, have access to this product but many of you do and still do not. How am I supposed to give information on how things work when you don't use the proper ingredients? And I'm sorry that I happen to make some of these. I've been working on EXACTLY the product we are talking about on this forum for over 20 years and I've developed unique products that aren't available anywhere else. Again, sorry for that! And yes, there are other systems that work but none of those have been through the kind of testing and development on surfboards that ours have. Not even in Europe. That's not promotion, that's just the facts. If you could all realize how small and insignificant surfing is in the real world, you could then see how ridiculous all the "self promotion" talk on this forum is. I worked at Morgan Yacht when I was young. We used more resin there than the entire surfboard industry combined. That's one place! Today I sell WAY more resin outside the industry that within and I don't promote outside at all. The surfboard industry is a place where you have a lot of fun and make a little money. I'm sorry for the Paul Gross statement. Paul is an old friend of mine and I felt he was wrongly persecuted by some of the people on this forum. Instead of fighting back, he left. To the detriment of everyone here.
Its clear what you referred to by that statement. Everyone should review those old posts. Most of them are still there. Drama and humor. Massive insecure egomania. Extreme tantrums. Lapse of reason. Babbling surrogate explosions. But no persecution. If you`re right about something, you stand. Not run and hide.
I think Paul was just tired defending his business ethics on every post. His posts, now archived, are some of the most valuable on this forum. I really wish he'd get back online.