"Polyester/urethane is a fragile eggshell formula that clearly contributes to the cancer farm." The materials used in these two forms of construction (epoxy/polystyrene polyester/polyurethane) are basicly the same. They all have to be treated with respect when it comes to ones health.To say one is less harmfull than the other is naive.David.
Cancer Farm? Try the urethane paint on your Surftech!! I guess you could careless since it is made by a bunch of guys in Thailand. Sluggo
Dumb Ass Pumpernickle, Since when is a surftech board environmentally freindly. The manufacturing of PVC Foam is not environmentally freindly. The manufacturing of Epoxy is not environmentally freindly. I'm clueless on stryofoam. Get a clue!!!! Sluggo
this whole thread is crammed with valid comments ..........even tho pumpernickles comments may seem a little offensive to the establishment...i agree with him ...and also i agree with the establishment as well ....and because of the fact that i have built epoxy sandwich eps ,and poly pu in my business for the last 15 years and built thousands of both along side each other i feel i am fairly qualified throw my peice in.... surf tech contruction is superior thats a fact... the only thing i can really criticise surftech for is the fact they need to gain there own identity....their riding on the reputations of really experienced established poly pu board makers who have no idea about the different performance characteristics of epoxy eps and pvc and wood combined .anyone would agree it takes along time to work out board design....i had guys come to me and say "so when ive finally worked out what works best for me then you can make a copy in epoxy" my comments were " no way you cant just get your best poly pu and copy it in epoxy it will go completly diffferent" thats their biggest failing at the moment is the plugs they are working off have been refined over years of r&d on poly pu by known names...so when you put em in epoxy there not quite there yet...and because these shapers arent riding them and fine tuning them in epoxy theres still a few things missing ....anyone who has seen my work would hardly say their lacking in soul ,if anything theyve got soul to burn...yet my contruction technique is not that far off from surftech...only diff is i ride em ,know em ,tweak em ,and beleive me ...once more builders get eps wired performance wise...extinction would probably be the appropriate word ....i feel i can make this call unbiased coz i build both but dont ride both and no one would ride a board they didnt like ,,,,and im also with pumpernickle in regard to performance over a variety of conditions,here in west oz we have indo style tropical coral point breaks that are getting southern ocean swells pounding them long before they get to bali ,we have florida style beachys and sections of coast with outer reefs that suck the life out of the swell ,peices of remote coast with sick sand point breaks that seem endless ,and granite ledges that rise out of the southern ocean where you can see 30 ft monters jack up and freight train....proven testing ground they cut it boys ...its only a matter of time....others can see it or else why would a company like salomon spend 6.5 million doing r&d in the back yard of the crew who already have it wired...regards BERT
Bert, That was one of the best things I have seen written on the subject, but it still does not deal with the fact of shipping jobs off to third world countries because the labor is cheap and much of what would put an employer out of business in America or Australia is simply passed off as oh well at least we are providing jobs for the poor souls. Why did most of the so called civilized world boycott South AFrica (other than misinformation and politics) back in the eighties? The argument was doing business with countries that were treating their fellow human beings poorly was the same as treating them that way ourselves. Would you recomend using goods from a country that produced those goods with slaver labor or child labor? The only reason for the sucess of companies like surftech, Boardworks, Volcom, Quiksilver and many non surf companies is because they use cheap labor and ship the goods back to the U.S. or elsewhere at inflated prices. There is no substance behind any of it. As you mentioned surftech has created nothing. They have copied other's designs and applied an old tech. approach to make a slighty more ding resistant surfboard. Most of the name brand clothing and surf products are produced the same way by cheap labor. They could not exist otherwise. Create commerce they have. Create new and improved products they have not. Get Rich they have. Produced something form years of toil and experience that will last they have not. We all buy the coffee table that is mass produced, but we admire the one that was handmade or hand carved. The difference is in the coffee table world the hand carved one brings the high dollars because the name of the creator means something. In the surfworld the very name of the shapers who have made the entire overhyped industry possible is reduced to a money making scheme and the shaper/creator gets a royalty (with no garantees or protection of distrubution) You guys remember a time when we all bought our clothing for surfing from regular stores? We bought them there because there was no so called surfing industry. The surfing industry is something that has been created for one purpose; to sell a bunch of cheap overhyped product to countries whose youth don't have enough basic skills to read a dime novel or count back change but can find a way to spend $60.00 on a pair of boardshorts made in china or a Channel Islands cut off a machine and finished by who knows. The industry was created for those with no identity who want to take on some false identity of a surf company to fit into something that does not exist anywhere but in people's minds. P.T. Barnum said it best, "Theres a sucker born every minute. I have no problem with new technology and there are aspects of the Surftech process I like, but filty lucre is filty lucre and hype is hype. I will ride my handshaped until something of real substance comes along. I also will enjoy the fellowship and feedback of my friends that make my surfboards.
Dearest All of You, You aren't very good at comprehending what you read. I said epoxy/styrene was a baby step in the right direction for your own production to be a little more health conscious and make a little better product. I never suggested anyone else attempt to build with pvc foam. You're right that pvc production isn't the most environmentally friendly process, however it is on par with Clark foam and there is alot less of it by volume in a Surftech meaning it is just a hair more environmental. PVC is approved for food and drinking water contact in the U.S. and is very recycleable while thermoset P.U. foam is completely non-recycleable. Pentane is the blowing agent used in most styrene foams. It is one of the safest blowing agents for your health and the environment. The blowing agent in PVC foam is a physical one on an extrusion line, thus making it very safe. The biproduct of burning urethane is dioxin and cyanide. On that note, yes the non-wood Surftechs do have a urethane based paint job. I agree that this is less environmentally friendly than it could be. However the paints come from Basler Switzerland where they do all possible to make enviro-safe products. As a matter of fact, they are now releasing a water based urethane paint. I saw the article in one of the Surf mags that showed pictures of the spray booths` at Surftech. They have friggin waterfalls on all walls to eliminate spray mist in the air. At least they have put in a noble effort in a baby step forward while some grumpy old shapers fear trying anything slightly better. I also hate the idea of sending away jobs, however it is not because of the bullsh#t notion that the workers are treated poorly in Asia. Their factories in general are newer and safer than ours. The so called low wages are the equivalent to a wage that can support a whole family and sometimes grampa and grandma too. Board builders in the U.S. rarely make that much salary unless you're Al or Rusty or Matt. I hate sending away jobs because it means some closed-minded Americans aren't using a little more cognative ability to figure out how to do something extrordinary at home. Go visit Cobra Thailand before you make uneducated statements that are negative. I've never been there but I have met people who have. Unfortunately the U.S.is the land of sweatshops. Refer to article in TWS Business News where three of the biggest surf glass factories in California whined about how much they hated their toxic business and weren't making any money anyway. Think, Think, Think, Study, Study, Study, there is always a better way. Love Delbert Pumpernickel P.S. I am just a happy Surftech customer who enjoys some hang time above the lip with a little more confidence that this eggshell will stay in one piece.
I read my copy of the surfer's journal last night. Besides being stoked at seeing Chamberlain, Mellor, and Dale all "proned out", I noticed something funny about the printing on the inside cover. I know my eyes are failing in my old age, but the typeset was off. Somehow the color was not as rich as we have come to expect, and after poking around in the mast head there it was" Printed in China".
Surftechs won't snap? Got a backyard full of snapped surftechs. What drugs are you on? Herb means big waves, clown.
Some of the best craftsmen in the world are in Indo and China. I've handcrafted my own polyester and epoxy sticks since 1979 also. I appreciate open minded thinkers like Bert. Love Delbert Pumpernickel P.S. I totally agree that Surftechs are1985 sailboard construction, but took somebody smart like Randy French to make mainstream shapers start thinking about coming up to 1985 technology.
......Better yet put some soul in a tech.Herb ------------------------------------------------- Love & soul are the way to go. I know several shapers who have done plugs for surftech and there is more soul there than you care too know about. Old Delbert is right when he says that the cobra factory is better than U.S. factorys. Do your homework. Ask someone like Yater who's been there. The man of few words will tell you straight up "State of the art". It aint eastern europe.