TDI TOXIC Hazard

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Does anyone know that current surfboard foams have very toxic side effects .Have any of you read the EPA'S Data sheet on this stuff? EPS sounds better for your health and when it goes to the dump site it Bio- degrates rather than pollute the watertable with TOXIC TDI . I would BOYCOTT ANY PRODUCT MADE WITH THIS SUBSTANCE if you enjoy good health and love surfing.

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Anonymous's picture
Greg Loehr (not verified)

Nice thing about EPS is that almost all of it is recyclable, right back to the plant you buy it from. There are also some urethane foams made with MDI which has a much lower toxcicity. Unfortunatly these are not available to surfboard manufacturers in the US.

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Anonymous's picture
dr. eco (not verified)

John, please finish your thoughts. 1)Right, TDI is a very harmful substance and may cause cancer but once the liquid products have turned into foam, it is trapped in chemical bindings. The liquid is harmful, not the blown foam. 2)EPS is a foam based on polyester not a polyurethane foam. It will certainly not biodegrate. PU foam is recyclable ( pyrolysis ) as is EPS foam. But it is easier to recycle EPS since it is not a thermosetting polymer. 3)Lots of energy is needed to produce EPS. 4)As far as recycling is concerned, the worst part of the whole board is the glass layer: fiberglass is not recyclable and the cost of separating the glass and the polymer matrix ( whether polyster resin or epoxy ) is too high. 5)MDI and TDI do both contain isocyanates, they are both harmful. 6)If you have decided to boycott every product which contains TDI, you should at first get rid of your fridge, all the insolation materials used around your house, your furniture ( it could be painted with PU varnish that does contain TDI) 7)If you love surfing, boycott instead the surf clothings, shoes etc. produced overseas and flown around half the earth and get a board that lasts for 5 years. 8)And, if you find a better alternative for blanks, besides wood, please post it, i would love to make a greener board.

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Anonymous's picture
bagman (not verified)

Dr eco. Thinks you saved me some time. Most people can read but they can't/ won't dig deep enought to find out what it really means. Ie. lead paint causes brain damage, but only if you injest it. So be carefull when you are around old paint with lead. That does not mean that all old houses should be destroyed, just because they were painted with lead based paint.

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Anonymous's picture
Greg Loehr (not verified)

Doc, EPS is based on polystyrene not polyester. In fact Clark foam is polyester polyol based. Walker is a polyether. TDI based foams (Clark, Walker and all the Aussie foams) have 2000 times the emissions of MDI foams, so there is a difference. I for one feel that polystyrene foams do make fine boards.

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Anonymous's picture
dr. eco (not verified)

Right, it is polystyrene, sorry. I thought clark uses polyurethane, carbon dioxide blown...

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joeyscott's picture
Joined: 08/28/2017
14 years old?! Wow. I found this thread when researching harmful effects of the PU foam dust as planning on getting kids building their own boards. I am a bit nervous now to be honest. TDI, MDI, it's all toxic stuff. I do wish there was a way to make a fully eco board (as much for marketing potential as eco friendliness!). Does anyone have any updates in the 14 years since last post?! I heard about Agave boards. Wondering whether I could find some wood and glue a blank just for fun, to try making a more eco board, not a fully eco one as thats probably nigh on impossible.
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gbzausa's picture
Joined: 09/13/2009
Here we go again .
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joeyscott's picture
Joined: 08/28/2017
Apologies, I made the mistake of thinking a discussion forum was about "discussion". You had no time to comment on the question but time to make a short unhelpful remark. Thanks for that. If the thread bores you, you could always NOT READ IT.
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Monkstar1's picture
Joined: 06/21/2004
You can always use pine but it's heavy.
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Send me your dinged, damaged, and yellowed.

BackyardBullard.com

sharkcountry's picture
Joined: 03/25/2006
Wood is good, but also heavier. EPS foam may be the way to go.
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joeyscott's picture
Joined: 08/28/2017
Yeah not keen on EPS but might try a board with pine. I would certainly enjoy working with the wood. Thanks
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mako224's picture
Joined: 12/26/2005
News flash. Life is fatal. All dusts, resins and solvents are harmful to some degree or another. Surfing can kill you. Take proper precautions. Live your life. Enjoy.
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joeyscott's picture
Joined: 08/28/2017
Hey preacher, do you wear a seat belt in your car? Wear a helmet on a motorbike? Duck when someone throws a punch at your face? Yeah, thought so. Life is fatal, for those who take reasonable and sensible precautions where possible without ruining the fun of life, it tends to be fatal a bit later. Mind the traffic won't you
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gbzausa's picture
Joined: 09/13/2009
Here we go again .
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mako224's picture
Joined: 12/26/2005
I'll add that all sorts of things in the boardbuilding have been represented as safe, eco, not toxic yadda yadda yadda. When you strip away the marketing bullsheet its all toxic. Solvents and resins are toxic. Its just a fact of life. Some are just toxic in different ways or differing amounts. Its a toxic soup of chemicals that get hard and strong when combined. Best not to get any of it on your skin or breathe any of it in.
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joeyscott's picture
Joined: 08/28/2017
Yeah, everyone seems to jump on this (thanks to years of marketing bull shit being shoved down all our throats, bull shit I know well too) and assume I am looking for some pearly white (with a hint of rose) way to make a surfboard! I am not. Just curious about trying some other methods, and not for the environment's sake, as I don't believe most of the global warming massive bull shit industry based on typically fraudulent science. So there ya go, no tree hugger here. I know toxicity is everywhere, I know that the same people who preach about global warming actually push legislation to irradiate my kids heads every time they go to the dentist. It's all fucken bull shit. I am not on a drive to change the world, just fancied playing with some other materials, especially if it means I don't have to gear up with my full face air fed mask, and just play around a bit.
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joeyscott's picture
Joined: 08/28/2017
"Here we go again" - Since you like pulling on people's chains, how long did it take you to crawl out of the abortion bucket exactly?
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gbzausa's picture
Joined: 09/13/2009
Here we go again
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joeyscott's picture
Joined: 08/28/2017
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thrailkill's picture
Joined: 05/07/2004
Try bringing something to the table, besides an attitude, eh? If you're here to learn something about surfboard building, welcome.
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Bill Thrailkill SHAPER SINCE 1958
sharkcountry's picture
Joined: 03/25/2006
I try to not post negative stuff, but I'm going to on this one. Look at his other post and you'll see he's a beginner. https://www.swaylocks.com/forums/shapingglassing Really messing things up with the wrong planer. I'm guessing he's thinking using wood instead of foam is easier. That will be even worse mess. gbzausa and Mako224, we tried, but can't help people that already know it all.
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joeyscott's picture
Joined: 08/28/2017
"Try bringing something to the table, besides an attitude, eh? If you're here to learn something about surfboard building, welcome." No, wholly unfair and on its head. Read my posts, nothing but openness and question asking, at no point stating I know just about ANYTHING whatsoever. No attitude neither. Funny, I get more replies when I grow some attitude which, reading around the forum some more, I see is the only way any real discussion gets going so I tried it, and it worked. Look at the replies. haha. What a joke. Yeah, I have an attitude now, but I didn't arrive with one. You (plural, not you personally) dragged it out of me kicking and screaming, to the point I had already decided I am outta here, way too much attitude and self-righteousness for me, thanks all the same. "gbzausa and Mako224, we tried, but can't help people that already know it all." - Again, lets just take a look at what you said and analyse it fairly and accurately..... So gbzusa "tried" did he? Check the thread from start to finish dude. TWO posts from gbzusa, BOTh read "here we go again". tell me something, how has he "tried"? What exactly has he "tried" to achieve with those two identical posts, other than pissing me off, offering no help, making a slur on me for opening a discussion he has heard before (but newsflash, I haven't). his posts were clearly and obviously designed for the attention of everyone BUT me, the OP, the one asking the question he is "answering". There is only ONE person his two posts on this thread could possibly NOT help, that's me. Yet you claim he "tried"? It's like a hen house of bitchy little egg laying clucking feather fluffing pricks. I was only bothered by gbzusa's childish little gybes, but since you jump into the old roost with him even when he has clearly only played a game of wind up the new guy asking innocent and humble questions of the many experienced (and many decent too) folk i here, you can easily be tarred with the same brush as far as I am concerned. Nice little flourish to the end of your mini-bullying post, "can't help people that already know it all". Care to qualify that? Where did I claim, or even come across as if I know it all? Why would someone who knows it all, ask questions? Explain that to me genius, if you can. No, you're wrong, I didn't, but it's so much easier on the low-skilled mind to just jump behind the biggest bully, than to actually exercise fairness, accuracy and impartiality. That's my argument, take it or leave it. I can't say I care which. I am long gone anyway, but just so you don't get to throw mud at me which goes unanswered, there ya go. Enjoy yourselves, you're clearly a tight bunch and too tight for any new blood, hence the reason the forum appears dead and the only activity bursts into life either when someone bullies the shit out of some new guy (sometimes deservingly from what I have read, but sometimes not too) or when someone takes offence and stands up to a pathetic little moron like gbzusa and his childish little digs to wind someone up. Well you succeeded gbz, well done. Glad that I (and others) now understand your motives for posting, self-aggrandisement, bullying, self-righteousness and "heard it all before" expressions of superiority and boredom. As I said already, if a thread bores you, you have the right to feck off and not take part. But you just can't do that can you? Can't have a conversation going on without your little bit of utterly useless but ill-motivated shite thrown in can you? Hence the reason I am sure you crawled out of the abortion bucket and probably have to check the mirror five times a day to see how beautiful you are. Get a grip dickwart. You're a cuntt of the highest order, and I bet you're a lonely one too. Ha ha. Hope you get the same response next time you bait someone asking well-intentioned questions of some of the experienced folks on here, if anyone ever does again. The way it's looking, that seems unlikely, and you will probably sit fidgeting until the day someone new turns up again to brighten your day and give you a new target for your arrogant BS. Plenty other forums out there, I should have followed my gut when I read the many posts I first read on here, loads of fantastically useful and insightful information I must admit, but sadly interspersed with occasional but regular gybes from insecure little armchair egg-spurts like you. Smile, you won, one less forum member. To all others who have been extremely helpful to me in my short-lived membership, THANK YOU. I have certainly learned quite a lot while here, but I don't suffer fools easily and I can get the information with far less baggage and attitude attached elsewhere.
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sharkcountry's picture
Joined: 03/25/2006
You rejected all the advice given. You are like others who won't listen to advice. Maybe it would be better for you to leave or stop asking for help.
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mako224's picture
Joined: 12/26/2005
Shapaholic.........Is that you???? Has the maker of the Magic Turd returned?
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gbzausa's picture
Joined: 09/13/2009
Wow is that rant Toxic !
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mako224's picture
Joined: 12/26/2005
That's whats got me thinking its Shapa returning to troll.
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stoneburner's picture
Joined: 12/30/2007
I tried not to comment. But to be fair, I will. First JS is way too coherent and writes too well to be Shapaholic. That is obvious. Granted, this topic is/has been a dead mule at Sways. JS first asked a few simple/harmless questions. MS and SC repsonded initially with reasonable and innocuous comments. Beyond that, the others were a bit snarky. No further comment was/is needed, from all parties. Leave it alone and the thread will (would have) die(d). Anything more is flaming and perhaps trolling -- by all. And to keep things honest, I have not seen anything that would suggest tehcnology development that is any more eco-friendly than pu, eps, pe, epoxy etc. Agave contains oxalate crystals. Balsa is about as sustainable as it is going to get for now.
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Swaylocks Surfboard Design Forum: thoughts & theories ... practical & theoretical

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everysurfer's picture
Joined: 09/20/2008
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