Center fin Toe in?

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Curlz's picture
Joined: 04/22/2019

Someone mentioned that this toe in might have been intentional as part of a custom order. So my question is:

1) What would toe result in with a center fin? Make the board pull a certain direction perhaps or initiate turns easier etc...???

Im deciding if I want to remove and reglass on since I have the board sanded now. 
 

it is about 3/8" off center. McDing mentioned it might have been repaired incorrectly. I've looked close and can't say I see Q-Cell in there but that is still a possibility. 
 

thanks

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

Maybe just stating the obvious here but a center fin can't have toe-in, only toe-out, I would ride it a few times to see if its an issue (in sanded state is fine as long as no leaks), you could add a couple layers of glass on one side to even it up a bit, or if you decide to remove and re-set its not that big of a deal.  Kinda hard to imagine it being intentional, but I'm guessing its not really gonna be a performance issue, more of an aesthetic deal.

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Honolulu's picture
Joined: 04/28/2004

Here's another way to look at it:  it's not toe-in or -out, you have a slightly assymetrical board.

Don't sweat it, just take it out and ride it.

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McDing's picture
Joined: 05/22/2004

There was a period of time during which several shapers from Malibu, Ventura and Santa Barbara offset fins and fin boxes.  I have heard a variety of explanations, thoughts, design theory and truthfully; NONE of them made any real sense.  Suffice to say though that the shapers  who did this, all either knew each other or were within each other's  "sphere of influence". 'Fads catch on and bad ideas spread even without any real justification.  I know what I heard as a reason back in 62 or 63 when I saw an early fin box set offset to the right hand side of the stringer.  But that doesn't make any sense when you see a Glass-on  offset.  I was rebuffed by one of Sways leading citizens when I mentioned it in an old thread a few years back.  Who knows I may have been getting my chain yanked when the guy in Yaters shop gave me that explanation.  But I an sure that's how the practice got started.   You had to have a design theory to cover poor craftsmanship.  Poor craftsmanship evolved into design theory.

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Huck's picture
Joined: 12/07/2009

LOL I'm sure there is a lot of truth in that observation.  

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McDing's picture
Joined: 05/22/2004

Without an intent to start up anything;  originally I was told that it was placed on the "Right" side of the stringer(viewed thru the deck) because most of the waves in SB and Ventura were "Rights" .   So the offset gave the rider a little edge in turning and holding in the face of a "Right Hand" wall.  But later I was told by a shop guy that it was done because of the difficulties involved in routing a 3/4" T-Band.  This thinking might explain why Yater went to the "Wedge" Foam and Balsa stringers around that time.  Most of Morey's early Wave Set boards were also two stringer blanks with the box set in foam.   I frequented the Front Street shop in those days.  The Eliminators , Penetrators, were two stringer with the box routed in foam.  Offsetting the box may have been done out of necessity or ease of install, but for a period became fashionable.  That's my two cents.  I amaze myself with my own memory and I don't let people tell me I didn't hear what I heard or wasn't someplace I was.   Lowel

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That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.

Curlz's picture
Joined: 04/22/2019

Ha! Very astute observation and theory McDing. Thanks for sharing the old memories. Agreed that it doesn't really hold much and not worth leaving  

Since I am really going over this board and putting forth the effort I've decided to knock it off and glass on a new one from the same template. As Huck said, it won't be difficult and it's going to drive me crazy knowing it's back there. Ha. 
 

I'll post pics as it progresses. Thanks for the buy in gents

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McDing's picture
Joined: 05/22/2004

Use a Roto-Zip or one of those Mini- Circular Saws to make a cut around the base.  Be careful. Sometimes when you "knock" 'em off they take the bottom lam with them.  Yeah definitely would like to see what the board looks like when you are done.  Hilbers is a good shaper.  Used to see some nice boards that he did in the Beach House in SB.

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That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.

Curlz's picture
Joined: 04/22/2019

I was planned to take my flat Japanese saw and slowly cut it flush then sand to avoid just that - pulling the lamination off. 
 

I will!! Pretty stoked on it. I've been wanting to get my hands on a Hilbers for a while but they're hard to come by with their fan club. 
 

Love the bottom contours with slight belly nose to tail, but slightly flatter up by the nose. Very interested to see how it rides as that's been my biggest critique on my self shaped longboard. It to is a pintail, similar dimensions, rails and bottom contours all except mine has concave in the nose. I wish I had left it more flat with slight roll. So we will see!

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phebus's picture
Joined: 08/09/2013

Is the trailing edge of fin on stringer (fin on angle),  or is entire fin placed offset to stringer?

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Curlz's picture
Joined: 04/22/2019

Yeah trailing edge is dead center on stringer so there is about a 3/8" toe out  of the fin. 

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McDing's picture
Joined: 05/22/2004

Yeah with a better pic;  I don't see any.  Just the photo glare.

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That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.

thrailkill's picture
Joined: 05/07/2004

Aloha Curlz, 

The real world effect of leaving the fin AS IS, will be that your riding position may be 1/2 inch to one inch different than if the fin were ''perfect'' in its alignment.      You will not feel it.   Knowing about the fin may mess with your head, but it will not mess with your surfing.

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Bill Thrailkill SHAPER SINCE 1958
Curlz's picture
Joined: 04/22/2019

Aloha Bill!! Great to hear from you. I was actually just thinking of you when at wind and sea a few weeks back. Surf was weak on the north shore, but there were some really nice south swells. 
 

Thanks for the reassurance. Now I just have to decide if my OCD is going to kick in. The fin is banged up a fair bit and I hate that feeling that I didn't do a job right... now is the time as well, but there is the "all original" factor. 
 

I'll make the decision soon when I have to. Still scrubbing it and patching to ensure it's water tight before polishing up, but it's great to know either decision is right. Just preference at this point

Mahalo my friend. 

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McDing's picture
Joined: 05/22/2004

I'm still thinking it may have been broken off at one time.  The base is pretty beefed up with cloth, resin, rope and milled fiber.  I don't think it would have had a base that beefy out of the average glass shop.

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That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.

SammyA's picture
Joined: 01/14/2006

Looks like someone botched the fin installation. Like Bill T said, I seriously doubt you will feel anything odd or different.
The first offset fins I recall were on the Morey Pope Blue Machine, a Bob Cooper design. I believe you could order them with the fin either side, or dead center?
Which side depended on your stance, regular or goofyfoot.

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Curlz's picture
Joined: 04/22/2019

Well….. went down the rabbit hole, but glad I did. 

Removed damaged foam and opened cloth, put cloth on any and all stress fractures and removed the fin. Sanded the entire board fairly aggressively, but not to expose any weave. After posting to sway locks and looking it over there’s a strong chance that the fin was damaged and poorly fixed with Q-Cell - not making sure to align properly. I used the old fin as a template and made one of curly Koa.

To ensure she was completely water tight and structurally sound I applied an epoxy fill coat and will do the same to the top. Let that cure then a super thin reicholds gloss resin and polish! 

Pretty stoked and glad I went all in. I can’t accept knowing I didn’t do everything right. 

I’ll continue to post as I get the top and bottom finished out. 

Wife is out of town so squeaked this one inside to finish up! Haha

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McDing's picture
Joined: 05/22/2004

Excellent.  Very nice little board.  Fin looks great.

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That which can be assorted without evidence was read in an illegal magazine.